Some 35 years ago, while I was driving a 850 Coupe, my brother had a 600 converted with an 850 motor, and a friend had this strange 600. I never thought of it other as a special version of a 600. It was a convertible car based on a 600. Already at that time the car was in a pretty bad condition, rusty and with several body dents. When parked on an uneven surface, the doors did not open. It had an ordinary 600 engine, and that was probably also almost gone. No race car, so to speak. As the engine caught on a fire, he gave up, and the car was dumped from the road into a long steep slope covered with trees.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Amica_02_scan20110807.jpg)
Picture of the car from ca 1970
After several years, I could not forget this car. I have moved away from my home town, but on visits there, I've been to the place and looked a couple of times, with no luck.
But at last, a weekend in September last fall I finally found it.
It was lying down in this long slope, and it was in a terrible condition. It had several dented and crashed panels, and the floor with sills were not there anymore. It lacked several parts, and the rest was badly rusted.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9190045_r.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9190027_r.jpg)
A couple of pictures from the day I found it
I had been thinking: if I found it, could it be rescued and maybe restored?
First of all, I did not even know what type of Fiat it was!
I placed a thread on the American Mirafiori Fiat forum. From earlier I knew that some pretty knowledgeable people used to post there.
After some discussions there, the agreement was made that the car most likely was a Siata Amica Spider 56. No other information of the car could be provided. Except from a picture on autopuzzle, nothing. I wrote to the Storico Centro Fiat, but they only confirmed that VIN # 147892 belonged to an ordinary Fiat 600.
The Mirafiori guys also strongly recommended that this car should be saved!
I did more thinking.
During my military service, I worked with tow cars and heavy rescuing, how should this issue be solved?
I called a friend I knew had a tractor with a log winch. But he had no longer the winch, and it had only about 25 meters of wire. The distance from the road to the wreck was about 200m.
Instead he proposed to pull with a car, and use a system of rope and blocks. Then we needed more than 400 m of rope.
Together with my brother, we took action in late October. Pulling force was our fathers VW Passat w automatic trans. We had one block anchored on the top, and one block down on the wreck.
The wreck was completely parted in two, the only connection between the front and rear half were the clutch and speedo wires.
When these were cut, we pulled the two parts separately.
The rear half was the most difficult part, with frozen brakes and the heavy drivetrain, we made slowly progress. I addition, the pulling track was not straight, to pass big roots and trees we had to steer the car sideways. This was performed with an additional rope and chain jack.
The first day we covered half the distance up to the road, and finally, in the evening the second day the rear part of the car was back on the road again!
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/PA290009_r.jpg)
My brother in action
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/PA300020_r.jpg)
Back on the road!
The front end had to be left to be rescued later, maybe next spring, as it now was late autumn and this operation could not be repeated in the snow.
But luckily, I was ordered to work in Oslo, close to my hometown, and I could spend the following weekend in the slope to rescue the front end!
This time a friend willingly came to assist the work.
The operation this time was a lot easier, as the front end is lighter. The experience last weekend had also helped us to establish an easy procedure. This time the front came up in only one day!
Also, the weather was much better, sunny and dry, as opposed to last time, we had two days with pouring rain.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/PB060003_r.jpg)
Pulling of the front end goes smoothly
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/PB060008_r.jpg)
Also the front end on the road
Now this cute little car is safely stored in my premises, and it is time to decide what to do with it.
As everyone can tell from the pictures, the car is in a very bad condition, and any repair work will be difficult. Also the windshield frame is missing.
Only the outer shell has some of its shape left, also the front hood and engine cover is intact.
Before thinking of any work on this car, information of its origin and technical details are very much needed. It is basically a Fiat 600, but the body is coachbuilt by a famous company. Can anyone who is reading this, please give some information or clues on where to look.
I have never seen a car like this other places, so I keep wondering: How rare is it?
(http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7241.0;attach=19440;image)
This is the picture in Paul Jarays Thread: Italian Coachbuilders
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Siata_Amica_56.jpg)
This picture of the Amica is listed on eBay
Fascinating story.
What I can tell you from the first look that I'm pretty sure it isn't an Amica or any of derived body shapes. (look at the more rounded bonnet)
That's definetly a job for als15, Paul Jaray or 75america, but in my view your car is a one-off.
Great story and pictures, olavr. I've moved this to the 'featured articles' section, as the story adds so much to the pictures.
And, with that, you've joined the ranks of Feature Writers at AutoPuzzles. :)
Super story! And I like your avatar...
I hope someone may find any more information about this car.
I don´t think it is a "stock" Amica, but I also do not believe this is a one-off.
Keep digging...
Great story!
It's not a Viotti, or a Fiat 600 Allemano / Seat 750, it definitely looks most like a Siata, but in the picture from 1970 the trim looks different in comparison to the Siata pictures..
Still, i think it's a Siata. The dimensions look the same, the shape of the wheel arches and doorhandles also look the same.
Really appreciate this addition to the site. Thanks! Good stuff.
Fascinating story olavr.
I'm sure the identification will be achieved on this site and good luck with the restoration.
What a fascinating little car. Massive project but looks to be well worth the effort. Any updated photos of it?
What a fantastic story! Thank you for posting it.
Thank you all! I'm honoured. And a picture of the car on the front page also!
I'm sorry, but the update is what you have read. I will not start any work on this before I know more about it.
And eh, my avatar?
It is me as 13 year old in a self built car w o engine. Pulled uphill to roll down again. In the car in addition to the driver (me) is my brother and sister, and a friend, and also our dog got a ride!
That´s what I meant! Really cool... :D
Nice story and (after a little restoration ;)) also nice car!
I'll be very pleased to dig in my archive.
At a first glance, I agree with the other puzzlers: it looks like an Amica 56 but probably is not (or has been heavily reworked).
So, let's start with some little questions.
Which chassis-type has it: 100 or 100D?
You should find it stamped somewhere in the engine bay (on the firewall or on the right panel). Also the chassis number (send it me by PM, if you want) can help in understanding the production year and to narrow the research.
Did the Centro Storico Fiat tell you to who has it been sold for the first time? And are you sure they said it was a regular 600 sedan? Because this would exclude it's a Siata: at that time Siata got rolling-chassis and not complete cars.
Any chance to know something more about its early history? How did it arrive in Norway, who were the previous owners and so on?
Hello, and thanks for answering.
The car is listed as a -58 at the norwegian authorities, but Fiat Centro Storico said it was a -56. They did not tell who the customer was, but said it was a Fiat 600 berlina. I have now sent them a follow up e-mail. The VIN # 147892 is an early type =100
I know very little about early history. The car came to Norway in 1961, and I got a list over earlier owners. I have not contacted any of them yet. I know the latest owner, but I don't think he can give more info. One other previous owner has a file of some documents, I will try to get copies of that.
Edit: New info from Fiat Centro Storico:
Quote:
Hello,
no, we do'nt have this kind of records because, for the italian law, these papers ("commercial papers") can be destroyed or anyway not conserved , after 10/15 years.
I've done, some years ago, some searchs in Fiat Auto's archives, about these models delivered to Alemanno, Pininfarina, Vignale and so on and i guess that are just, as you wrote, "rolling chassis". Unquote
It could then have been delivered as a rolling chassis, and with a VIN # from a normal series berlina?
The solution is still very far, but I try to add some tiles to the puzzle.
Yes, the VIN is the same and I don't know any specific code for rolling-chassis: all the 600s are marked "100" or "100D".
This is a point pro the "Siata hypohtesis".
Another one is the rear grille: is definitely the same component as in the picture below, of an Amica 56 Coupé.
Also the shape of the front bonnet could be Siata, because is true that the first Amica 56 had a more squared profile, but the less famous Amica 57 is very similar to your.
But there are also some points against the "Siata hypothesis":
- the grille colud have been a stock part, bought by Siata as well as by other manufacturers (even if I only have the Amica using it, in my archive).
- Siata bodies of those years always have a little rib along the wheelarches, while your looks having sharp edges.
- the Amica 56/57 has the taillights mounted on small protruding tails, while your has rounded quarter-panels.
At the end of the day, in my opinion it could be an Amica 57 Spider, but unfortunately I only have a couple of pictures of the 2+2, that has some differences from your.
you deserve much credit just for hauling the rubble out of the woods and giving the world (or at least us car fReAkS) some automotive history to learn about that may otherwize be forgotten forever.
GREAT story!!!
Thanks for all info so far..
I have added two photos of the front and rear wheel arches, to show that there is a very little rib.
I am still missing more spesific information of this car, are there someone on this forum who can give more info?
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P4140003_f.jpg)
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P4140004_f.jpg)
I am still very keen to get more information of this car. Are there really no of you experts who can give me a clue? Also another question; Where else to get the info I need? Are there other places on the internet dealing with strange italian cars?
You could always try IMCDB or its forums. :)
I have been in contact with one previous owner, and borrowed two pictures.
One is a better scan of the first picture on the top, the other is an interior shot. Both pictures are from the same day and location about 1970.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Amica_03_scan20110807.jpg)
I am still in need for more info on this car. Can someone please give me a clue?
Another forum that might help.
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk
the forum section is down the home page.
Will take a few days to be able to open as admin likes to vet prospective members.
But the wealth of knowledge has been commented on in a few classic vehicle magazines.
Quote from: als15 on March 05, 2011, 05:50:53 AM
The solution is still very far, but I try to add some tiles to the puzzle.
- Siata bodies of those years always have a little rib along the wheelarches, while your looks having sharp edges.
- the Amica 56/57 has the taillights mounted on small protruding tails, while your has rounded quarter-panels.
At the end of the day, in my opinion it could be an Amica 57 Spider, but unfortunately I only have a couple of pictures of the 2+2, that has some differences from your.
I agree that little rib along the wheelarches on my car may look a little different than the delivery photos.
But on the rear lights, they are definetly protruding, as can be seen on this photo (same as above):
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/PA300020_r.jpg)
I have also got a different photo from another person who has done some investigations, and this car has different trim than my car and the other photos.
Siata might have varied the trim on the different cars? Maybe they did not build that many?
Heyy!
My car is once again pictured on Autopuzzle's front page!
Thank you!, and I hope the frontpage picture will inspire you experts to dig into your archives to find out more of this car!
Here is the picture I mentioned above. It is from Ruoteclassiche, an article over different amicas:
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Siata600_ultima_amica_r.jpg)
Well 1951 is just impossible, of course.
The base car Fiat 600 debuted only in 1955...
In that page there are 3 pictures, the caption describes them all:
Top: Amica 1951-model (...)
Center: another 1951 exemplar (...)
Above: last Amica realized on a 600 chassis
I got an e-mail from a contact saying that if the car has an overall lenght of 365 cm and the engine has a stoke of 65mm, it will be a Amica if it is a two seater.
I do not remember if the car had rear seats, and there is no track of rear seats today! The title (I have a copy of an old title) says the length is 365 cm.
Today I have measured the engines stroke, it is 65 mm (ordinary 633 engines had stroke 56 mm)!
Do these facts add anything to the task of identifying the car as a Siata Amica?
The two things are not exactly connected.
I just verified on the original brochures:
- as a standard, the Amica had the regular 633 engine, and nothing is told about an increased displacment
- on another brochure (a 1956 leaflet, actually) Siata advertises a 30 Hp conversion for any Fiat 600 engine, with stroke 65 mm and displacement 735 cc.
I can imagine that the Amica could be ordered both with regular or increased displacement, but Siata engine conversions were also available to all the end-owners and coachbuilders, and quite common at that time.
However, as a very personal feeling, I think it's indeed a Siata.
Hello, and Happy New year!
Thank you als15 for your view on this car. I am also convinced that it is a Siata. You say you have a brochure of this, and I am very curious to have a look on them! Can I ask you kindly to give me a copy??
I have also from a friend got a scan from AutomobilRevue 1957, showing this car:
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/AutomobilRevue_Siata_57_r.jpg)
I still doubt the cited year 1951 and agree with the 1957 scan of Olavr
Neither the proposed basis car matches (the Fiat 600 debuted in 1955)
nor do I think that styling elements like the Panorama windscreen and the fins are a 1951 design.
Maybe someone mixed up a handwritten "1951" with a "1957" on the backside of a photo, which would be my guess...
I think it's just a translation misunderstanding.
This is the correct translation:
"Top, the 1951 model "Amica", totally redesigned. The tubular chassis was replaced by a box-members one. The body, larger, was made by Bertone. Center, another 1951 car: note the stock bumpers. Above, the last "Amica", made on Fiat 600 chassis".
Apart form some wrong or misleading details in the text, it's clear that the picture here is only referred as the "Above". The other 2 pictures are not visible here. So, no 1951 at all. This one is the so-called "Amica 56" and was based on the 1955 Fiat 600.
To avoid further mix-ups and misunderstandings, I am posting the complete page from Ruoteclassische, showing the two Amicas from -51 (Topolino based) and the latest Amica, (named -56 and 600 based), which is the type I have
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Siata600_r.jpg)
That's a wonderful story and I hope this little gem will be back on the road someday!
While I am really fond of these etcerinis, I am afraid I am no expert and won't be able to add any sensible information to the discussion.
However, I did some -out-of-the-box- thinking and here are a few comments and possible leads that might revive the discussion:
- Looking at the pictures of your car it looks like it did not bear any insignias like can be seen on the picture from the Ruoteclassiche (first one above the front wheel arch, second one between the door and the rear wheel arch -a SIATA 'V-shaped' badge if I am not wrong-). Question is: can you check if there are holes on your car?
- Generally speaking, I guess Siata must have used specific accessories such as wheels, door handles, steering wheels, speedometers, etc. whose brands or designs are known? Looking at your pictures that show the outside and the inside of the car, isn't it possible to see whether these accessories are of Siata-origin or not?
- Apparently the body is made of steel, right? Were Amica's body made of steel?
- One last -crazy- idea: why not borrow a metal detector and make sure that no pieces or clues were left on the ground after you retrieved the car? If only you could find a rusty Siata badge, it would help! :)
Thank you for Your input.
No I'm afraid there are no badges left on the car, except a Fiat badge on the front Hood.
The car was imported as a Fiat 600, probably because a more "exotic" name would have been more expensive to import.
The wheels and speedo are stock Fiat 600, only the steering wheel is different. And I will check for the holes for the badges on the rear wings.
And also, the body is all steel.
I found other pictures of similar cars; The grey one is a '56 Siata Amica and has a front that looks like the same of your car...the red one I suppose to be a '57 because of the different front lights, but very similar in the back. We're looking forward the moment this little beauty will start to reborn! ;)