Hello everybody,
following the great idea of the "Fiat fuoriserie" books written by als15, I'm now working, with his contribution and help, on a book about Alfa Romeo 1900, 2000 and 2600 fuoriserie.
The book will be published by Edizioni il Cammello, and after having created a list of all the cars I have found I ask you for a little help... if you have more special, strange, home-made,
unknown (or even proposed and never-built) cars based on Alfa 1900, 2000 or 2600 (and FNM, IKA, Imperia...) let me know!
As for the similar threads by als15... 3 copies available for the best contributions!
Thanks for the help!
This is the list...
(in italic the new cars found with this thread)
New list... I hope it's better now...
I have already found the first contribution in the Solved Puzzles... ;D
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=24395.0
Alfa Romeo 2600 by Marco Zanuso (designed 1963-65)
(http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24395.0;attach=60067;image)
I was working on a similar project (fuoriserie Alfa Romeo's are my speciality) until 'Curiosalfa' by Stefano Salvetti came out in 2010.
That book covers most of the things I had in mind (only a few cars lacking + I would have added some more technical information) and was printed in a much higher quality than I could have afforded),
So my project became pointless, and I stopped working on it.
On top of that, last year H.-Jürgen Döhren published his book 'Millenove' which also covers all 1900 Fuoriserie cars.
So I do not know if an additional book on the subject will add a lot of value. (And so, I'm also not sure you will be able to sell a lot of copies)
Nevertheless, I am in any case always in for an additional book about fuoriserie cars, so you can count on my contribution and help.
In the coming days, I'll check out the files I was working on before the Curiosalfa book came out and I'll post the cars that are not mentioned yet in your list.
A first teaser:
1954 1900 Castagna coupé:
Yes, Curiosalfa and Millenove are on similar subject, and maybe there will be a little competition with this book, but we (Alessandro and me) think that this book should be more complete, and the two other books are far from the completeness of the books I have in mind (and I hope to reach this goal...), in addition to being very expensive (the Fiat fuoriserie books are around 15-30€, Curiosalfa if I remeber right is 60€ and Millenove is not in italian and I saw it for sale at 105€...).
That's way we decided to start the project anyway... ;)
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600. So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).
I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?
I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.
And of course, sometimes cars first appear on Autopuzzles before they show up in a book:
1954 Raymond Hyvert Alfa Romeo Special => http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21527.0 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21527.0)
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600. So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).
Yes, you are indeed right... Curiosalfa is the most similar book... so I ask you... what do you think I should do to create a book quite different from Curiosalfa?
What I thught is that I will use, when possible, only period pics... and I will enlarge the range of special cars with some very uncommon cars, like the FNM Cutia or the Emery Cooper T23-Alfa Romeo... and focusing only on three models it will be a more specific book... other suggestion?
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?
Curiosalfa - yes, done!
Millenove - not yet, but I will do it soon...
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.
Yes, I know that book... In my list I have not added the Matta fuoriserie and the Alfa Romeo internal prototypes... but they are somewhere on my PC... ;)
Thanks for your opinion and suggestion!! :)
List updated...
WOW!
I'll start looking for specials!
How I love new books!
(1st of all, wasn't there an Excalibur J with an Alfa Engine?)
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 03, 2013, 07:01:32 AM
(1st of all, wasn't there an Excalibur J with an Alfa Engine?)
Great! I never heard about this one...
Added!
Nice! You can count on me.
This one is missing : Pick-up FNM 2150 from 1972. Production - 3/7 cars.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 03, 2013, 03:28:39 AM
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
Curiosalfa was indeeed 60 € but it also contains much more than just the 1900 and 2600. So in my opinion, it's worth every penny.
Millenove is in my opinion heavily overpriced (but I 'only' paid 79 € for it (and mine is equipped with the slipcase)).
Yes, you are indeed right... Curiosalfa is the most similar book... so I ask you... what do you think I should do to create a book quite different from Curiosalfa?
What I thught is that I will use, when possible, only period pics... and I will enlarge the range of special cars with some very uncommon cars, like the FNM Cutia or the Emery Cooper T23-Alfa Romeo... and focusing only on three models it will be a more specific book... other suggestion?
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
I have the impression that your list has not yet been crosschecked with Curiosalfa and Millenove.
If so, will you do that yourself?
Curiosalfa - yes, done!
Millenove - not yet, but I will do it soon...
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
I also want to point to the book "alfavelate", written by the Alfa blue team founder Gippo Salvetti (and father of the author of the Curiosalfa book)
It contains the AR52 "Matta-raid" and a completely different looking 2600 sedan prototype.
Yes, I know that book... In my list I have not added the Matta fuoriserie and the Alfa Romeo internal prototypes... but they are somewhere on my PC... ;)
Thanks for your opinion and suggestion!! :)
My book (set up was an overview of all post war Alfa Romeo's from the 1900 up to the 1995 Castagna Vittoria and Zender Progetto Cinque: official and fuoriserie, prototypes and derivates like the Bergantin, FNM,...) would also have been much more advanced back in 2010 when Curiosalfa came out if I would have had let go the idea to only (or as much as possible) work with period pics. For a lot of the cars, it is almost impossible to find period pics (or you must have much better and obscure sources than others) but I kept searching for period pics...while Curiosalfa just used recent pics in cases where they were unable to find period ones.
Döhren had another approach with his Millenove book by using almost always recent pics (not the approach I like).
I also tried to find each time a front, side, rear and interior shot of the car...naïve of me because in most of the cases impossible to find.
I also lost time trying to find answers on questions like 'Who's responsible for the 1900 L Torpedo?" Curiosalfa solved that problem by writing '...the coachbuilder is unknown...' While Millenove's solution on this question was writing: 'There is no indication as to whether the cabriolet was built by Alfa Romeo itself or possibly by Carrozzeria Colli...'
Currently, I don't really have suggestions to differentiate it more from Curiosalfa (otherwise I would have continued myself with my project), but if period pics can be found of all cars from all views, and the unanswered questions can be answered, then I still see potential for a successful book... But I now know that achieving both these goals is very hard, if not impossible to achieve.
Depending on how many cars we find that are not mentioned yet in Curiosalfa/Millenove (Apparently a publisher is interested to bring out an Italian/English version of Millenove which will bring down the potential of your book again.) the relevance of this book might increase.
If the cross-reference with Curiosalfa has already been done, then why is a car like the 1900 'Bianchi' by Riva missing in your overview?
FNM 2000 TIMB:
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
GHIA cabriolet 2000
I assume you mean with this one Corrado Lopresto's 1962 2600 Spider?
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
VIGNALE coupé
The probably 47 Alfa Romeo 2000 based cars that were built can as far as I know be spitted up in 4 series and 2 sub-series, all based on visual differences.
Type 1, Type 2a, Type 2b, Type 3a, Type 3b and Type 4
The fire extinguisher company CEA (Construzione Estintori Anticendio) of Bologna, converted 2 examples of the Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint in 1963 and 12 examples of the Alfa Romeo 2600 Berlina in 1964 into race track fire intervention vehicles.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
PININFARINA 2600 621-coupé speciale
This car was firstly presented as a convertible on the 1962 Turin Motor Show.
Then, It was converted into a coupé and was presented on the 1963 Brussels Motor show.
A coupé version with a slightly different front does also exist (but it is probably the same car that was modified again).
This car is currently owned by Roland D'Ieteren.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
BONESCHI 2000 linea tesa 1961
BONESCHI 2600 cabrio 1963
The 2600 was also part of the Linea Tesa series.
It was the 9th vehicle in the Linea Tesa series, therefore, there was written 'Studionove' on the rear flank.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
BERTONE Sole e Luce coupé 1959
The Sole, designed by Franco Scaglione, was presented on the 29th Geneva motor show (12-22/3/1959), got a modified front and was presented again on the 41th Turin motor show (31/10-11/11/1959). I never managed to find out if Scaglione was also responsible for this facelift.
Was the name of the Luce coupe just 'Luce' or 'Granluce'?
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
FNM 2150 1968
Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
ZAGATO proposal built as Rover 2000 TCZ
As far as I know, this car has no relation whatsoever with Alfa Romeo.
Only link is that both 2600 SZ and 2000 TCZ were designed by Spada and both were made by Zagato.
Quote from: 75america on May 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM
If the cross-reference with Curiosalfa has already been done, then why is a car like the 1900 'Bianchi' by Riva missing in your overview?
You are right, I lost it because it was not on my PC (I checked Curiosalfa without the PC, and I have a lot of pages of notes)... ::)
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:38:57 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
GHIA cabriolet 2000
I assume you mean with this one Corrado Lopresto's 1962 2600 Spider?
Yes...
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:45:54 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
VIGNALE coupé
The probably 47 Alfa Romeo 2000 based cars that were built can as far as I know be spitted up in 4 series and 2 sub-series, all based on visual differences.
Type 1, Type 2a, Type 2b, Type 3a, Type 3b and Type 4
Do you know if this is a period classification or something done later?
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 03:11:09 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
BERTONE Sole e Luce coupé 1959
Was the name of the Luce coupe just 'Luce' or 'Granluce'?
Granluce should be right... but I'm not sure at all...
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 03:16:25 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
FNM 2150 1968
Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.
I'd say photoshop...
Thanks for the corrections!!! :hail:
Quote from: João on May 03, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
Nice! You can count on me.
This one is missing : Pick-up FNM 2150 from 1972. Production - 3/7 cars.
Thanks!!! :thumbsup:
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?
...and about your list, I think there were more models by the biggest coachuilders...for example, I think Pininfarina made 4 1900, 3 2000 and 3 2600, Touring made 1 Coupe and 2 spiders with the 2000 ('58) and a 2600 Spider ('60), etc. I'm sure they are all well known and you already know but I don't see them all in the list or they are under a different model. I think there should be a way to id the right model (with the year or some styling features) to help us in the process...
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 04, 2013, 04:42:08 AM
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?
As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 04, 2013, 04:42:08 AM
...and about your list, I think there were more models by the biggest coachuilders...for example, I think Pininfarina made 4 1900, 3 2000 and 3 2600, Touring made 1 Coupe and 2 spiders with the 2000 ('58) and a 2600 Spider ('60), etc. I'm sure they are all well known and you already know but I don't see them all in the list or they are under a different model. I think there should be a way to id the right model (with the year or some styling features) to help us in the process...
I fully agree with you PJ, this current list is absolutely not detailed enough:
As a reply on your examples, I have the following listed:
1900
PININ FARINA coupé TI (1900L) => 4 or 5 cars were built, but with at least 3 different front grills, so for me => different cars
PININ FARINA coupé => I split this one up in 3 different versions, and then there is also the 1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt
PININ FARINA cabriolet => there were 2 series of cars that had visual differences
2000/2600
PININFARINA Sestriere I-II-III => there were indeed 3 different versions of this Alfa Romeo 2000 based car (but it is one and the same car)
PININFARINA 2600 621-coupé speciale => yes, 3 versions as already mentioned in one of my previous posts.
2000/2600
TOURING Praho => there is indeed the one off 2000 Praho
TOURING spider => for the 2000 spider, there is the European version, the European version 2+2, the USA version prototype, and the American version called Roadster + a wooden/clay model from 1957. Plus there is the 2600 spider and a 2600 Spider with a modified front.
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 04, 2013, 04:22:49 AM
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 03:16:25 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 02, 2013, 07:24:21 AM
FNM 2150 1968
Apparently there was also a break FNM 2150 Familiare (1971), but I doubt if this pic is a photoshop.
I'd say photoshop...
I think so as well, but I'm still convinced there was a station wagon (unfortunately I have no pictures of the real car):
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:11:10 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 04, 2013, 04:42:08 AM
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?
As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)
I had just a preliminary look at my index, where I read that, according to different sources, Ellena was involved in a 1900 Coupe. Reading those lines, now I see you are right, it was for Alfa Romeo and not a project on their own.
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:11:10 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 04, 2013, 04:42:08 AM
Wasn't there a 1900 Coupe by Ellena in 1954?
As far as I know, no, but they were involved in the production of the Alfa Romeo 1900 primavera by Boano.
Although I also never found out exactly who did what on the project. (Ellena and Boano were closely related to each other)
I don't know any 1954 Ellena 1900... and as far as I know Ellena start the production of bodyworks with its badge only in 1957... but the production of the last 1900 Primavera by Ellena is an unsolved mistery...
Sorry again for the rough list... :-[ I tried to fixed it... maybe now something is more clear...
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt
Is it the coupé similar to Boano Primavera??
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
TOURING spider => a wooden/clay model from 1957.
???
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
TOURING spider => a 2600 Spider with a modified front.
The Segale or another one?
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 04, 2013, 08:39:40 AM
Sorry again for the rough list... :-[ I tried to fixed it... maybe now something is more clear...
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
1 off that was made for Farouk, the king of Egypt
Is it the coupé similar to Boano Primavera??
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
TOURING spider => a wooden/clay model from 1957.
???
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 05:28:41 AM
TOURING spider => a 2600 Spider with a modified front.
The Segale or another one?
- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:
- The 1957 2000 Touring clay model:
- It's another one with the modified front:
Sorry to jump in this discussion so late... I was on holiday :D
As the publisher of the book, I'd say that I'm not very worried about the commercial success.
It will be something different from the other two for many reasons (price, focus on a single family of models, use of different pictures and... your contribution). I hope it will widen once again our knowledge on such interesting cars.
What comes very clear from your comments is that it needs a very deep research and it worths to be published only if the story of every single model is told deeply and accurately.
But I'm sure our Iluvatar will do it.
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:
Yes, that's the one I was talking about... maybe it's not so similar to a Primavera, but in the picture from the front there was a few resemblance... it was only the way to identify it... ;)
And thanks for the great pics!!!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
- The 1957 2000 Touring clay model:
Are you sure this is a clay model? It looks more like a normal metal prototype...
If necessary, I can take higher quality scans of some of the pics.
No I'm not sure if it has been made from clay. In the past, I must have found that info somewhere, but I currently don't remember where.
ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation
BERTONE Perla (Scaglione) 1955? => this car (grey) was presented on the 1955 Turin motor show. A couple of months later, the car (now white) was modified (e.g. different wheel arches,...) and received a hardtop
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here)
BONESCHI Astral 1953-'54 => There do exist 2 versions, although I think it is one and the same car that was modified
COLLI ministeriale 1955 => I have identified so far 3 different versions
CONRERO => prepared also 1900 berlina cars
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello? There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,...)
GHIA coupé (Savonuzzi) 1900L/1900C => there do exist several versions of this car but all of them with the same basic design theme
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza)
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo's. Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months. It's hard to get reliable information on the subject. I currently don't believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet).
TOURING Visconteo=> there does exist a coupé and cabriolet of this Tipo 55
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the "Fangio" car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the 'Gara'
TOURING Super Sprint => there is also an SI (1954-1955) and SII (1956-1958) which has complete different bodywork + There is the one with the Marelli removable roof
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version. And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical.
WORBLAUFEN (CH) cabriolet (similar to series 1900) => there do exist at least 2 versions of this car
ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation I found different informations about that from different sources... are you sure?
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé I merge it with 01846, cause they are indeed similar... another problem of my rough list...
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here) If the model we are talking about is the same (picture below) I have it as a 1900 proposal, and if you look to the shape of the front with the large side grilles it looks so similar to the Gazzella... I see on AlfaBB the same model claimed to be a Giulietta prototype, but I'm not convinced at all of this version...
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello? There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,…) Maybe not by Michelotti (I have to check) but indeed the name is Supergioiello and not Gioiello
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza) see the next post
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo’s. Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months. It’s hard to get reliable information on the subject. I currently don’t believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet). Another misterious topic...
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the “Fangio” car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the ‘Gara’ I know the Fangio car... but why is it different from the others?
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version. And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical. ;)
The other info are already in my files...
These are the five main Ghia-Aigle design versions I have (some of them with more variations...)
Maybe 3 and 5 can be considered two version of the same series...
Quote from: Iluvatar on May 06, 2013, 05:49:12 PM
ALFA ROMEO Sport Spider (2000 Sportiva of Museo Alfa Romeo) => This is also a Bertone creation I found different informations about that from different sources... are you sure? Almost, yes, It is a Scaglione design and sevaral sources mention it is from Carrozzeria Bertone.
Boano => you forgot to add a coupé I merge it with 01846, cause they are indeed similar... another problem of my rough list...
BONESCHI Sprint Alfa Romeo proposal (scale model) => Is it possible you mean the Giulietta proposal (which does not belong here) If the model we are talking about is the same (picture below) I have it as a 1900 proposal, and if you look to the shape of the front with the large side grilles it looks so similar to the Gazzella... I see on AlfaBB the same model claimed to be a Giulietta prototype, but I'm not convinced at all of this version... Yes, it's the same model. My source (and probably also the one from Alfa BB is the Book 'Alfa Romeo Giulietta' by Anselmi, and although you can never be 100% of these sources, Anselmi is in my opinion pretty reliable. Photo caption says: "Few people knew that Carrozzeria Boneschi of Milan participated in the tender-competition for the model definition and construction on the Giulietta Sprint sports coupé. The scale model that appears in the photographs represents Boneschi's proposal: given its constructual complexity and transcience of taste inspired by the rear end of the model, it is little wonder that it lost out to the Turin proposals.
GHIA Supergioiello (Michelotti) 1900L/1900C '53 => are you sure Michelotti designed a Supergioiello? There does also exist the Gioiello. There are some differences between the different made Gioiello cars (single head lights/double headlights,...) Maybe not by Michelotti (I have to check) but indeed the name is Supergioiello and not Gioiello There is the Gioiello AND the Supergioiello.
GHIA-AIGLE => your descriptions are a bid vague for me, but there were at least +/- 15 different Ghia-Aigle Alfa Romeo 1900 cars, split up in 4 design themes and each time in coupé and cabrio version (except for the Spider Razza) see the next post (I count indeed car 3 and 5 as 1 design theme)
IMPERIA => some months ago, I started some research on these Belgian built Alfa Romeo's. Currently, my investigation is on hold but I will restart it in a couple of months. It's hard to get reliable information on the subject. I currently don't believe that Imperia made (6) Touring coupés; but I believe they imported 6 of them into Belgium (but no proof yet). Another misterious topic...
TOURING Sprint sI-sII => there is also the "Fangio" car (chassis number 1306*00025), the Alleggerita (3 ? cars made) and the 'Gara' I know the Fangio car... but why is it different from the others? Compared to the production model it had amongst others: a front side windows in 2 parts, different bumpers, other tail lights and it was painted in a special 'nocciola' methalic paint.
ZAGATO SSZ => there does exist a coupé and cabriolet version. And as always with Zagato, probably not 2 cars lof the series looks identical. ;)
The other info are already in my files...
An addition:
I posted a new (and better, I hope...) list in the second post.
Thanks for your contribution! :)
Some more Michelotti sketches:
From 'La "Sport" e i suoi artigiani:
Alfa Romeo (derivata) p 74(+pic)-75:
... Anche Gennaro Calce e Matteo Barberisi nella loro officina di via Pavia a Napoli realizzarono per Giuseppe Ruggiero, noto agli sportivi partenopei con il simpatico soprannome di "Beppe 'a frizione" per la sua abitudine di tenere sempre il piedi sinistro appoggiato sul pedale. La vettura era la vecchia Masertai A6GCS monofaro di Ruggiero cui Calce e Barberisi sostituirono nel 1954 il motore non più riparabile con quello di un'Alfa 1900 AR51 Matta opportunamente elaborato. La macchina esordì l'8 agosto 1954 al circuito Città di Reggio Calabria, segnando l'ultimo tempo in prova e classificandosi settima e ultima a cinque giri dalla Ferrari 3000 del vincitore Luigi Piotti. La vettura riapparve in gara alla Agnano-Cappella dei Cangiani del 1955, valida per il Campionato sociale dell'ACI Napoli, dove giunse seconda assoluta. Nel 1956 Ruggiero ottenne tre terzi posti di classe alla X Targa Vesuvio, alle IX Coppa Selva di Fasano e alla XI Catania-Etna e l'anno successivo vinse l'assoluto ancora all'Agnano-Cappella dei Cangiani, ben comportandosi al XIV Gran Premio Napoli (III di classe). Ultima apparizione degna di nota della vettura fu al XVI Gran Premio Posillipo del 1959, dove Ruggiero si classificò quattro di classe...
Dagrada p134
...Il rientro nel 1955 avvenne con la preparazione di Vetture Alfa Romeo 1900 e Giulietta nella nuova officina di via Salaino, sempre a Milano...
Zanussi p 324:
...Ultima fatica del Nostro fu una barchetta a motore Alfa Romeo 1900, costruita per un patrizio di Treviso, vettura che tuttavia, non sembra aver mai corso. Pare che il motore fosse stato trasformato con uno spinterogeno in grado di generale due scintille in rapida successione al fine di migliorare la combustione, secondo un sistema che aveva reso celebre Pagani, e che poi fu adottato anche sulle Abarth 850 TC e 1000 Berlina...
From the recently published book 'Sartorelli Engineer & designer:
Thanks!!!!!!! :hail:
Quote from: 75america on June 02, 2013, 09:47:39 AM
From the recently published book 'Sartorelli Engineer & designer:
It's quite clear that the Sartorelli drawings of the 2000 Spider developed into the 2600 Spider Ghia owned by Lopresto, with a simpler design but with the same styling cues... it could confirm the Sartorelli hand behind the car (I discussed that with Lopresto and he didn't know the designer...)
The Ghia 2600 Spider is chassis 10601.191002, while chassis 003 is a Touring spider with the body of the 2000 Spider but the 2600 engine.
Both owned by Lopresto.
All I know is that the picture was taken in 1990 in Vevey (Montreux).
Michelotti drawing for an Alfa Romeo 1900 based hearse for Carrozzeria Accossato:
Quote from: 75america on June 07, 2013, 09:26:10 AM
Michelotti drawing for an Alfa Romeo 1900 based hearse for Carrozzeria Accossato:
Great! Thanks!!! :thumbsup:
Do you know if this one was built?
Quote from: Iluvatar on June 07, 2013, 11:45:30 AM
Do you know if this one was built?
No I don't. But because this drawing tends already more towards a technical drawing than a sketch, I would not be surprised if the project got beyond the drawing board.
Interesting also to see that there are two alternative of wheelbase and two for the roof heigth.
Similaro design was also done by Michelotti for Accossato hearses on Fiat 1400/1900.
Quote from: als15 on June 07, 2013, 05:24:54 PM
Interesting also to see that there are two alternative of wheelbase and two for the roof heigth.
Similaro design was also done by Michelotti for Accossato hearses on Fiat 1400/1900.
Yes, it looks like the final drawing has a wheelbase of 2630mm (like the standard 1900) but there is a 2880mm proposal in the same drawing... maybe 2880 is the wheelbase of the longer chassis of the Colli limousine?
Alfa Romeo 1900 powered Cooper T23:
Quote from: 75america on July 10, 2013, 12:21:34 PM
Alfa Romeo 1900 powered Cooper T23:
Yes... it was a puzzle here on AP: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9049
A great car for this topic!!
This will need some more investigation, but I bumped onto the following:
"...Jack Flaherty had a [Huffaker Genie] Mk5 with a potent 2-liter Alfa tuned by Italian ace Virgilio Conrero..."
Quote from: 75america on August 24, 2013, 06:54:02 AM
This will need some more investigation, but I bumped onto the following:
"...Jack Flaherty had a [Huffaker Genie] Mk5 with a potent 2-liter Alfa tuned by Italian ace Virgilio Conrero..."
I found this...
Quote from: conceptcarz.com
The second version of the Genie was the MK5 which was large enough to except a bigger Coventry-Climax FWA, Corvair, or Alfa Romeo engine.
...and, from a facebook page:
Quote from: Burns Stainless LLThis is a great example of a custom exhaust build for a vintage racer. This Huffaker Genie is powered by a 1600 cc Alfa Romeo engine. The original Huffaker Genie MK4 was powered by an 100c BMC motor. Later versions were designed for 1600cc Alfa and Coventry Climax engines. The Genie MK10 with Chevrolet V-8 power provided competition for the legendary Chaparral's of Jim Hall.
I hope there is still time for updates.
I'm reading about Renato Mandarini:
"Fin dal 1939 rimase affascinato dall'idea di mettere a punto un sistema di distribuzione avalve rotante, che sperimentò inizialmente nel 1947 su un vecchi motore Alfa Romeo 1900 a sei cilindri ridotto di cilindrata a 1100cc ma che non fu mai installato su alcun autotelaio da corsa."
Quote from: Paul Jaray on September 23, 2013, 10:58:11 AM
I hope there is still time for updates.
I'm reading about Renato Mandarini:
"Fin dal 1939 rimase affascinato dall'idea di mettere a punto un sistema di distribuzione avalve rotante, che sperimentò inizialmente nel 1947 su un vecchi motore Alfa Romeo 1900 a sei cilindri ridotto di cilindrata a 1100cc ma che non fu mai installato su alcun autotelaio da corsa."
The Alfa Romeo 1900 (and it's engine) only came out in 1950 and was a 4-cylinder. So the mentioned engine most have been derived from another model.
It seems that today I made more mistakes than posts! ;D
(BTW there's a pic of that engine, probably you recognize it.)
... ;) ...
Quote from: Paul Jaray on September 23, 2013, 02:00:24 PM
It seems that today I made more mistakes than posts! ;D
(BTW there's a pic of that engine, probably you recognize it.)
I assume the engine came from a 1933 6C 1900 (I don't know how that engine looks like but it must look almost identical to a 6C 1500/1750 because it was part of this engine family))
Quote from: 75america on September 24, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
I assume the engine came from a 1933 6C 1900 (I don't know how that engine looks like but it must look almost identical to a 6C 1500/1750 because it was part of this engine family))
Indeed this could be the right story...
According to this book:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=12487.0
this car:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0
"...was rebuilt in 1965 into a sleek Special powered by an Alfa Romeo 1900 TI Super engine."
Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 05, 2013, 07:30:26 AM
According to this book:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=12487.0
this car:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0
"...was rebuilt in 1965 into a sleek Special powered by an Alfa Romeo 1900 TI Super engine."
Thanks! These are the cars I need!!! ;)
Attention: This picture http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0) is from the time before the rebuilt.
Based on the text from the book, the car probably looked completely different once it was equipped with the Alfa engine.
Quote from: 75america on October 05, 2013, 08:37:20 AM
Attention: This picture http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17670.0) is from the time before the rebuilt.
Based on the text from the book, the car probably looked completely different once it was equipped with the Alfa engine.
Yes... the problem is to find a picture of the latter version... which from what I read should be still in existence... ???
I was recently talking to a man who was restoring a 1953 Alfa Romeo 1900 coupe. He did tell me who the coach builder was, except I've forgotten. He said it was an Italian body, and that it had small enamel badges on each side with a horse and carriage. What would it have been?
Quote from: Craig Gillingham on November 26, 2013, 08:06:28 PM
I was recently talking to a man who was restoring a 1953 Alfa Romeo 1900 coupe. He did tell me who the coach builder was, except I've forgotten. He said it was an Italian body, and that it had small enamel badges on each side with a horse and carriage. What would it have been?
The carriage can be the badge of Castagna... but without the horse...
???
OK, that helps for now. I'll ask the owner next time I see him.
We shouldn't forget this one: ;)
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20557
Quote from: Wendax on December 01, 2013, 06:16:15 AM
We shouldn't forget this one: ;)
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20557
Nice... but it's not solved yet... ;)
Quote from: Iluvatar on December 01, 2013, 02:28:01 PM
Quote from: Wendax on December 01, 2013, 06:16:15 AM
We shouldn't forget this one: ;)
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20557
Nice... but it's not solved yet... ;)
And I've really no idea...
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:
There were an Alfa 2500 made by Pinin Farina for Farouk... this one is a similar car on the 1900 base, but I've not found any proof it was for Farouk too...
Hi, I refresh this thread to see if there is something new... if you have more infos and cars please let me know!!! :)
I've found that on AP the Conrero Alfa Romeo Supersonic/Spider has three different puzzles... ::)
NEH 594 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13078)
ropat#49 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=24751)
NEH 1390 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=18877)
Interesting photo of the Worblaufen stand at the 1954 Genava motor show.
Note the 1900 Berlina. Is the contribution of Worblaufen (just) the addition of the sunroof?
Quote from: Iluvatar on December 01, 2013, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: 75america on May 04, 2013, 02:28:42 PM
- There is in my opinion not a single Pininfarina Alfa that looks like the Primavera. The Berlinetta of Farouk:
There were an Alfa 2500 made by Pinin Farina for Farouk... this one is a similar car on the 1900 base, but I've not found any proof it was for Farouk too...
According to the 'Pininfarina Catalogue Raisonné', first owner of both the 1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 (page 197) and 1951 Alfa Romeo 1900 (page 202) was Faruk, king of Egypt.
But as with many sources, I don't know how accurate that information is.
Quote from: 75america on April 25, 2014, 11:18:33 AM
Interesting photo of the Worblaufen stand at the 1954 Genava motor show.
Note the 1900 Berlina. Is the contribution of Worblaufen (just) the addition of the sunroof?
According to the informations I have it was only the roof...
Not the same for the coupé built by Worblaufen but almost identical to Touring Sprint...
Picture from Geneva 1953.
which car is this?
(http://thumbnails111.imagebam.com/37938/61a59f379376140.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/61a59f379376140)
Peugeot 203 Cabriolet by Worblaufen