AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Automobiles => General Automotive => Topic started by: als15 on November 18, 2011, 04:58:02 AM
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Dear friends,
I think that the little Fiat 500 "Topolino" is one of the most intetesting Italian cars as a base for coachbuilding or racing conversion.
I published more than ten years ago a book on this topic and I'm planning to review, update, enlarge, upgrade and -in a nutshell- rewrite it.
I know it was a "primitive" work ;) and thousands of cars can be added.
So, let's go! You for sure are the best people worldwide that can help me in discovering what was missed at that time.
Two short notes:
- I'm still at a half of the book on the "Fiat 124 and 125 fuoriserie" (that thanks to the large amount of new models and good reasearch tips you provided me is taking much more longer and getting much more bigger then excpected ;)). So I will not probably be publishing this new one on the Topolino before one year.
- 3 free copies for the best contributors will be awarded, as usual.
Thank you! :yeah:
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Now, this is the right place:
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Almquist Sabre I was available for a 500c engine also (and Clearfield Plastics too).
Carrozzeria Nettuno
Cooper T2 had a 500c engine too.
Devon Nippy is too obvious...
Dofin 500
Eaglet made an electric Topolino in 1948
Fersen
This one was made by Carrozzeria Greco, still looking for more info:
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Graziani Fiat 500MM Barchetta
Hansen Special
Maestri Topolino
Ortolani 750 Sport
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Great!!! :D :D :D
I knew you would have been a gold-mine of new models. I should hurry up in completing the current book and quickly move to this one!
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Another rare one:
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Some internal:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=15642.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11971.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13294.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=3243.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=7616.0
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By Wendler:
Probably pointless to start mentioning all Topolino based cars that appear in 'La sport e i suoi artigiani'?
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Probably pointless to start mentioning all Topolino based cars that appear in 'La sport e i suoi artigiani'?
Yes... I'm managing to get the rights to publish pictures of many of them ;). This is actually the main point in re-publishing this book adding also all the racing models.
But -even if a masterpiece- also "La sport" is not 100% complete. So if there is any new models, it's more than welcome.
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:)
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Funny! But, AFAIK, it only looks like a Topolino. There were a couple of firms on the west-coast making fiberglass bodies like that.
However, I had a short mention about them in the first edition of the books and I'll keep it.
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Topolino by Bertone:
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Advertising vehicle for Campari:
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Serra creation on Topolino basis:
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Fiat topolino by Vignale (1947)
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Funny! But, AFAIK, it only looks like a Topolino. There were a couple of firms on the west-coast making fiberglass bodies like that.
However, I had a short mention about them in the first edition of the books and I'll keep it.
I don't think this one was fiberglass. But you're the expert, and it's your thread...
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Looking with more attention to the pictures, you probably are right... Some details like the hinges and the inner side of the doors actually look like a real Topolino. This is very interesting.
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Fiat topolino by Vignale (1947)
This is something new... Any forther info? Can I ask you the source of this drawing?
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Fiat topolino by Vignale (1947)
This is something new... Any forther info? Can I ask you the source of this drawing?
PM sent.
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Fiat topolino by Vignale (1947)
This car reminds me two other cars... that strange 1949 Vignale Fiat 1500D and the 1946 Michelotti-Farina Lancia Astura (http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/download/file.php?id=21577&mode=view)... is there a link between these cars??
MPC
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Alessandro, I'm sure you are aware of this little Simca 500 A Furgone of 1948. but thought I would draw your attention to it. Beautiful little machine..... :)
It's currently for sale in Italy.
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Hi als15!
On the left the car you called "Barion" in your book, and you have a PM about it...
And on the right the previews body of the same car, this is new!!
(edit: sorry! the first is on the right and the second on the left...)
MPC
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A few etceterinis... I'm not sure about the story of them, but I think they all have a link with the Topolino... (engine, chassis, etc...)
MPC
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More etceterinis...
MPC
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From the book "La Fiat va alla Mille Miglia" two Fiat 750 Sport of Fenocchio-Fenocchio at Mille Miglia 1949 and 1954.
MPC
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Good source. I'll go through all that book.
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Fiat 500 Sperandeo 1947 found on Automobilismo d'Epoca.
I'll send you the article (with the one about the Motto 500).
MPC
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and this one?
(http://thumbnails36.imagebam.com/16453/42093b164523279.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/42093b164523279)
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http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 ;)
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ok ;D
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If I remember correctly, there was a french car using a Topolino engine...it had the unusual diamond wheels pattern...
Can't recall its name...
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It is the Alamagny with a Simca 5 engine.
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4293.0
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...it had the unusual diamond wheels pattern...
Like the "Romboidale" in Italy...
MPC
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.
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Not much information available:
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Not much information available:
Home built??
MPC
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Home built??
I think so: something made in the early 50s. The rear hood comes from a 1949 Fiat 1100 E.
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2 interesting stories both which need a little more investigation:
Fiat 500 Topolino 'English' 4-seater:
Early in 1939, a four-seater Topolino was introduced called the 'Convertible Four'.
Produced in England, by an English company, solely for the English market, it was priced at £133.10s (£133 pounds and 50 pence). Using the same 569cc side-valve engine as the production FIAT 500, it was RAC rated at 6.7hp and the annual road tax was £5.5s (5 pounds and 25 pence).
Information regarding the Convertible Four is very scarce although it must be available somewhere.
The standard FIAT 500 Topolino was well accepted in England. But the true English motorist of pre-WWII days was a family man that enjoyed the pleasures of the countryside and regularly took his family out to find a nice little spot for a picnic. Therefore, the four seater car was considered a 'must' and as other small cars such as the Austin 7 and the Morris Minor were popular, someone decided that a small four seater with a streamlined body would stand a very good chance of success. It was reputed to have been converted from the FIAT 500 van by Messrs C. R. Abbott of London and certainly it bears a very strong resemblance to the van. But the body line from the waist down suggests that it could just as easily have been based on the normal 500 two door, two-seater saloon.
Engine, chassis, running gear and instrumentation was identical to the standard car, with the exception of the final drive ratio which was increased from 4.87:1 to 5.i:1 to compensate for the additional 1 cwt of the larger body.
There was ample room for four adults of normal stature and room for limited luggage behind the back seat. As with the production 500 saloons, there is no boot lid and all luggage had to be loaded through the two doors into space made available by pulling the back seat squab down.
A road test of the Convertible Four was carried out by staff of 'The Motor' magazine in April 1939 who were quite obviously very impressed by the performance of the test car with four adults on board. The notorious 'Porlock' hill was negotiated in first gear without any trouble at all. Reference was made regarding the 'excellent brakes' and the 'finger-tip' steering.
It is thought that all Convertible Four's were produced with two-tone colour schemes - even that these were metallic colours - but the lack of records make it impossible to substantiate this. It isn't even possible to hazard a guess at how many Convertible Four's were built, but only a handful remain in this country and on the Continent and very few are usable at this time. What is known is that they command a much higher price today than the equivalent FIAT 500 convertible or fixed head saloons.
Specification:
Engine: Front mounted, four vertical cylinders, in-line, side-valve, water-cooled of 569cc giving 13 bhp at 4,000rpm.
Lubrication: Gear pump with suction filters submerged in the sump.
Fuel Consumption: 6.7 litres per 100km (42 mpg) Fuel gravity fed from a 21 litre (4.5 gallon) tank located under ths scuttle
Gears: Four forward gears plus reverse with synchromesh on 3rd and 4th gears.
Maximum Speed: 84kph (52.3 mph)
Brakes: Foot operated, hydraulic drum brakes to all road wheels plus hand operated transmission brake.
Electrical Equipment: 12 volts with coil and distributor.
Suspension: Front: Independent by transverse spring and wishbones.
Rear: Semi-elliptic springs.
Hydraulic shock absorbers to all road wheels.
Dimensions:
Length: 3,290mm (10' 9 1/2")
Width: 1,275mm (4' 2 1/8")
Height: 1,410mm (4' 7 1/2")
1938 Fiat Topolino Siata Smith Special
The Smith special was converted at Sydney Smith garages Ltd of Purley way, Purley Surrey. They were marketed in 1938 and sold for £153.10s
Apparently +/- 20 were built.
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Thanks for information.
About the Sidney Smith I've found some period literature.
The other one is still not so clear to me.
I've found some reference showing it as a regular Fiat model (I mean, sold by Fiat dealers), but it was also quite obvious it wasn't manufactured in Turin, or at least not directly on the Lingotto assembly line.
In your oprinion, was Fiat somehow involved or was it just a personal initiative of Abbott?
And have you any period picture? Perhaps from "The Motor"?
Thanks again,
Alessandro.
P.S. I think I should speed-up with 124 and 125, because Topolino is getting more and more interesting... ;)
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The other one is still not so clear to me.
I've found some reference showing it as a regular Fiat model (I mean, sold by Fiat dealers), but it was also quite obvious it wasn't manufactured in Turin, or at least not directly on the Lingotto assembly line.
In your oprinion, was Fiat somehow involved or was it just a personal initiative of Abbott?
And have you any period picture? Perhaps from "The Motor"?
The story behind this car is unclear to me as well (and apparently also to most others, including owners of these cars) but we have some real experts on this forum, so perhaps there is somebody who is specialized in British cars who knows more (and owns perhaps also 'The Motor' issue of April 1939 or other period pics).
It seems that approx 400 of the 'convertible four' were made. So, to sell this amount of cars, I think some kind of support from Fiat (UK?) must indeed have been existed (only making use of the Fiat sales network?).
Also, company Messrs C. R. Abbott of London is a mystery for me. We all know Abbott, but that's E.D. Abbott Ltd from Farnham, Surrey. I checked both the 'Beaulieu encyclopedia of the Automobile Coachbuilding' and 'A-Z of Britisch coachbuilders 1919-1960' but not a word about Messrs C. R. Abbott of London.
Its also certainly worth to take a look on the S.I.A.T.A. volume by A. Fornai (even if we know there are a lot of errors in his books). There are approx. 20 pages present about Topolino related cars (and I have the impression that not all of them are covered in 'La Sport' and the 1st edition of Topolino Fuoriserie).
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It seems that the Dutch were 64 years earlier with the idea than the guys from Top Gear:
Fiat 500 "Topolino", converted to a railway inspection car. Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch railway company) Centraal Station, Amsterdam, november 4, 1947. Picture: Ben van Meerendonk / AHF, collectie IISG, Amsterdam
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Cabriolet version of the Simca 5, made by 'La Découvrable', 29, Avenue de Châtillon in Paris, as presented on the Salon de Paris in 1938:
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More Topolino's + other views from already covered Topolino's
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#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?
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#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?
I have no idea.
About the Spiaggia, only info I can add is this Czech text about the picture:
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In a small auto body shop in Parma Mendes Piazza produces little pick-up modifying the mythical Fiat "Topolino"
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In a small auto body shop in Parma Mendes Piazza produces little pick-up modifying the mythical Fiat "Topolino"
A "Carrozzeria Piazza Mendes" still exist in Parma (via Pasubio)!!
MPC
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#2 should be a Polski-Fiat while #3, AFAIK, is a modern coonversion. Am I right?
I have no idea.
About the Spiaggia, only info I can add is this Czech text about the picture:
More news about the Spiaggia!
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Unfortunately this text doesn't add any info. The name, as far as I understand, is of the current owner. And I'm even more convinced it is modern (respect to 1954), at least because it uses 1965 Fiat 850 Coupè taillights.
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Fiat 500 C Berlinetta Pitton:
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Fiat 500 A Cabriolet Bertone:
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Pictures of the Simonetti:
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Fiat 500 A Sport Vendrame:
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Fiat 500 A Moretti 750 Sport:
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Siata creations:
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Fiat Giannini 750 Sport:
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Simca Gordini 750:
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Who's responsable for this one?
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Modern replica of a Francis Lombardi, had made by a huge Topolino collector about 15 years ago.
I think it was made by some classis-car body specialist in Veneto, as well as other nice replicas.
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You probably know about it, but I'll add it anyway: In Germany, NSU/Fiat sold the Topolino with a wood/fabric body instead of a steel one. It was made by Weinsberg.
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A special home-built Topolino from India, with Maruti Omni engine.
MPC
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;)
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19180.0
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Graziani 500 (1953)
(http://thumbnails29.imagebam.com/17074/f5d1fc170738151.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f5d1fc170738151)
(http://thumbnails44.imagebam.com/17074/bf273e170738161.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/bf273e170738161)
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A strange 1950 500C Trasformata Aperta "Carrozzeria Speciale"... I think a later modification...
MPC
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A strange 1950 500C Trasformata Aperta "Carrozzeria Speciale"... I think a later modification...
Starting from a wooden Giardiniera: what a shame!
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the owner says that bought this Topolino in 1952: never seen!
(http://thumbnails66.imagebam.com/17148/d995db171479669.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d995db171479669)
this is a Beccaria creation:
(http://thumbnails56.imagebam.com/17148/346c39171479674.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/346c39171479674)
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:D
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Amazing! :D
Do you have any further info? The front badge doesn't look Fiat: perhaps a Simca?
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???
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Amazing! :D
Do you have any further info? The front badge doesn't look Fiat: perhaps a Simca?
Photo caption:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=18672.msg191106#msg191106 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=18672.msg191106#msg191106)
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???
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You scream, I scream....
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You scream, I scream....
:lmao:
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Obviously, only the base car is from 1939:
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Unnamed Fiat Topolino-based racing special built in 1950-1951 by László Nagy in Budapest, Hungary
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.
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Topo 2 should be Bertone
Topo 5 PininFarina Abarth 500 Record 1958
Topo 6 Zagato Zanzara 1969 (by Ercole Spada)
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Topo 8 Accossato
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Topo1 and Topo 3 are Siata 750, most likely with Zagato aluminum body.
Topo7 is a van converted by Tenconi, Topo9 the same, by Autoroma. I think I know the book they come from... ;)
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I don't have that book. I got 7 and 9 from a site about wooden-bodies cars.
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Yes, I've sent them those pictures some years ago. But they come indeed from my book, that I'm going to update.
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http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20102.msg207159;topicseen
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Resembles the 1950 Gutbrod-Superior with Wendler body very much, but according to the photo caption this one is based on a Fiat 500 C (and the wheel caps seems to confirm that it is Fiat based). The caption also says it is an 'Eigenbau' but I think it might have been a Wendler creation as well (and otherwise it's a serious rip-off).
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That "Milchwägeli" was apparently made by Langenthal, and 2 versions were made, one with and one without doors.
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Great! I know the car, but I've never seen period pictures. Thanks.
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fantastic car !!!
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Interesting one... http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11837.0
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one off!
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what about this one?
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Munaretto- Santon were the drivers of this beauty at the Mille Miglia (1939): but who was the coachbuilder?
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Hello Alessandro,
will you include Fusi Ferro Aurora 8 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=5135.0)?
It used a twin engine combined of Fiat Topolino units.
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Great suggestion! :thumbsup: I was not aware of this odd car and for sure I'll feature it!
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=> http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10265.0 (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10265.0)
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one off made in Italy in the sixties:
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Two brothers named Thoresen, from the small town of Hönefoss (near Oslo) in Norway, built their own car in 1958 – 59. They called it BRT after their initials. The body was built of GRP and steel panels, some of the rear was the hood from a Volvo PV. It was based on the chassis from a Fiat 500, 1939. Engine is a Simca 1200 ccm. The car was used for some years, and the front end was slightly changed. The car is still owned by the original builders, and it was exhibited this summer by the local car club.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9010179_r.jpg)
Picture of the car in the early 60-ties
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9010189_r.jpg)
As shown in 2012
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The Thoresen car, described in the above post, inspired the young Per Thorsrud, also from the same town in Norway.
In fact, he was employed in the Thoresen brothers car shop and gas station.
As the other car, this also was based on a Fiat 500, 1939. He used a Simca 1400 engine. He named it PT-40
He made the body all by himself, and he had no drawings. He only draw up the curves in scale 1:1.
The car has a removable targa-top. The rear screen is from a Saab V4, upside down.
The car was finished in 1968, and he used it for some years. It was later sold, but Per traced it and bought it back.
This car was also exhibited together with the above car.
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9010174_r.jpg)
The car when it was finished in 1968
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/P9010173_r.jpg)
The car exhibited in 2012
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interesting cars!
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interesting cars!
Indeed!
And what about the red one behind?
EDIT: I found it in my HD.
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One more Fiat 500 based car in Norway
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Aaslid_Fiat_NMV_4-02-2_r_zps28ebbd14.jpg)
This car was built in 1962 by the young student Rune Aaslid of Orsta (Ørsta) in Norway. It is built on a 1952 Fiat chassis, and the body is home made from glassfibre and polyester. Windshield and rear lights are from a MG.
The car still exist in the same town, now owned by Oddvin Aasen.
The picture is from a feature in the norwegian car magazine "Norsk Motor Veteran" in 2002
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WOW!
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This 500 C Belvedere was featured in the british magazine "AutoItalia" february 2013 by Graham Earl. It looks like a factory built car, but only this one is known. He mentions two other excisting similar cars, but they were not professionally built like this. The car has been in a museum, but no certain history is known
(http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/orypdal/biler%20og%20bilder/Fiat_500_Topolino_Mare_r_zps10576abd.jpg)
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I don't want to be always the one that says when Italian cars are modern fakes, so I don't investigate on this one. But one thing is sure: this is not a factory-built car.
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so Als, what do you think about this and many others Fiat 500 C "Jolly"?
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I'm sure that Fiat never made them, except perhaps a couple of special cars for a Fiera del Levante show in Bari.
Some are later adaptations (don't forget that the Jolly trend was born in the late '50s, when the 500 C was no longer in production) and some are even modern fakes.
Another point is that I never got any information about period conversions (I mean, a period ad or magazine feature). Of course, this doesn't assure that they were never made in the 50s. But, before seeing a period document, I continue to be skeptic...
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thank you.
Is it possible to see a picture of the vehicles made for the "Fiera di Levante"?
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http://www.autoscout24.de/DetailsGTM.aspx?id=231126643&cd=635017991340000000&asrc=st
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A nice Simca 5 woody:
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A custom "De Marchi" front grille
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http://www.autoscout24.de/DetailsGTM.aspx?id=231126643&cd=635017991340000000&asrc=st
No photo!
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This one should stay here too...
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=24153.0
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Topolino based, not powered:
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Rich decoration:
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For the Polish postal service:
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Wonderful!!! Made by... Do you know?
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Sorry, no