Poll

What are we going to do with this list

A list of makers, with categories and sub categories, here on Autopuzzles
A list of makers plus all the models with data and pictures, in a new Website
Something else:

Author Topic: The Final List  (Read 22165 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheItalianJunkyard

  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 21
  • Me want MOAR
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • The Italian Junkyard
Re: The Final List
« Reply #100 on: January 12, 2010, 06:50:23 PM »
great to see you're managing to put all the ideas into a sensed form!

About the sources, we could add a column where we enter all the reliable sources about that specific make.
What's a reliable source? Generally books are more reliable than websites, but you often find many mistakes on books as well, and often websites are very usefull with not so known info in them.
Regardless, it's common sense that can make the difference. Reading something on a small website isn't that reliable unless the writer provides itself some reason to at least trust him. the same goes for books. generally you can trust books as there is much more work, efforts and even a bit of authority in order to get your work printed. Still, we all recognize a well written book and even more an important book. Often many recent books are written after what you can find yourself on Wikipedia or other not so hidden websites, and even without checking the info.

So...it's up to you to trust or not something. Many people write after what companies' founders told them, but can you trust them?
In the end, among the best sources are companies websites. the problem is probably 90% of automotive companies were dead before internet was conceived. Books from the nineties tend to be good, and so prior to that. Recent books should be from good authors with some sort of good sources quoted in the books themselves (like renowned archives, workers or ex-workers from some companies, etc).
Something you'll know I suppose  :D

When there is something about a make that we aren't sure of though, and that we can't find any sort of baking, the solution could be using something like a red colored background for its line (as we are now working in Excel), or add a "verified" or "no sources" attribute in a new column, so that only verified info could browsed during a search.

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #101 on: January 13, 2010, 03:12:40 PM »
When the same manufacturer is reported in different books it can be a sign that piece of info is reliable, but I noticed that sometimes, some books are written using info taken from other books, often with the same words!
That is why I call that column an 'indicator' of reliability: if a maker (like '162 GLASSFIBRE') is reported in one source only and that source is often mistaken, we can consider that entry not very reliable...
In my vision of the final project, for each car\makers I will add if we need more info about or more pictures.
The story of some makers are well documented (De Lorean-Tucker-Bricklin) and pictures or info are not missing. Even in these cases, the real experts know something that we may not know (the different prototypes made by Giugiaro, the Tucker Convertible, etc) and only they can add something new.
For all the obscure ones, it's open to everyone who have some info or pictures, and each one can help with his material.
About the sources online they can be the most reliable at all or just fakes: some cars are not in any books, but on the net you can see pictures of them, ads and see them on the road. The selfbuilt cars are not reported on many books, but online you can find websites with their story.
Sometimes there is just a guy writing: "that's my dad's selfbuilt car", plus the pictures. I want to put them in, but the reader have to know that it's not a verified source.

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2010, 05:10:16 AM »
Just in case you want to know, 162 Glassfibre is not a mistake.
I found out that in many other sources this is simply called: "One Six Two Engineering" and the identity is confirmed by the model range, that matches with the one reported in "A-Z" book.

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2010, 08:55:16 AM »
1 year later:
the index is growing, now I've refined it till the 'M' letter: 12000 makers so far and still counting.

Offline DynaMike

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 921
  • Country: nl
  • Puzzle Points 230
  • Amsterdam, cool.
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #104 on: December 07, 2010, 09:12:20 AM »
Wow, that's really impressive, Paul Jaray! And the 'M' is only the 13th letter, so 13 more to go....

Offline DeAutogids

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2752
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 204
  • This text is just for you!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • dAuto.nl
Re: The Final List
« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2010, 10:00:09 AM »
Paul,

What you are doing is the dream of many people. I think Histomobile is trying to do something like that ob to a certain point, I believe I myself try to do that and there are many people doing that in their own. I know a guy who is making "a matrix" of everything vehicle related for Holland alone and he mentioned to me he was well over 1000 entries.

Offline Allemano

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 18477
  • Country: de
  • Puzzle Points 821
  • almost retired
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #106 on: December 07, 2010, 10:01:20 AM »
Unbelievable!!  :o
Hope your back-up from time to time...

Offline Arunas

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 10420
  • Country: lt
  • Puzzle Points 644
  • Nulla tenaci invia est via
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • https://www.cartefacts.com
Re: The Final List
« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2010, 10:13:44 AM »
Incredible numbers, indeed! :) :thumbsup: I hope it will be realized for public some time later ;) In fact, the entire idea to have a great list lead me to establishing www.allcarindex.com. The main objective is to have a free and pictured(!) index of production makers, concept cars and Soviet self-built cars. I am sure Autopuzzles is a place where I have found and I can find people willing to develop the idea and this is what makes this place so special. Than You all! I hope to get help of you or advices for my project in the future and I would be pleased to contribute (only if the time permits me for this) for this project of the century, PJ and other guys are working on. Best luck!


Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2010, 10:53:12 AM »
Paul, that is an incredible project - congratulations and keep at it - it has to be done.
I thought your Italian coachbuilders feature was excellent and I'm looking to do something similar in the future.
I'd gladly give you a hand if you need any help.

I myself have a database of manufacturers since 1940.
This includes all the major/minor makers plus the one-offs.
It does not include commercial vehicles or single-seat racing cars.

The fields are - Make, Years of Production, Manufacturer name, town, country, (owner/designer), Cross reference to other makes, Production numbers, Remarks (inc. type of car produced), Reference (to magazine or book article) and whether an image is available.
There are currently 7,280 makes listed plus 12,300 photos/images

Secondly I also have a database of sports racing cars from 1940.
Same parameters with 1,900 makes. Photos/images are included in the main database.

Thirdly I have a small database of Formula Junior single seaters.
More or less the same parameters with 355 makes and 350 photos/images currently.

You have probably realised by now that my main interest is in sports racing cars (post WWII) and I'm working on on an encyclopedic publication covering this field.
I'm also very keen on the coachbuilders aspect but haven't had the time to start that yet.

I'm sure many others are working on various aspects of motoring from veteran to today's concept cars.

Wonderful - keep up the good work.

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #109 on: December 07, 2010, 12:40:05 PM »
Wow, that's really impressive, Paul Jaray! And the 'M' is only the 13th letter, so 13 more to go....
...yep, but I'll have to slow down now.
Paul,

What you are doing is the dream of many people. I think Histomobile is trying to do something like that ob to a certain point, I believe I myself try to do that and there are many people doing that in their own. I know a guy who is making "a matrix" of everything vehicle related for Holland alone and he mentioned to me he was well over 1000 entries.
I started when I was a kid and never stopped...I still have to put dozens of books in it...
Unbelievable!!  :o
Hope your back-up from time to time...
well, it's just an excel file, but I have several copies of it and of all my pics
Incredible numbers, indeed! :) :thumbsup: I hope it will be realized for public some time later ;) In fact, the entire idea to have a great list lead me to establishing www.allcarindex.com. The main objective is to have a free and pictured(!) index of production makers, concept cars and Soviet self-built cars. I am sure Autopuzzles is a place where I have found and I can find people willing to develop the idea and this is what makes this place so special. Than You all! I hope to get help of you or advices for my project in the future and I would be pleased to contribute (only if the time permits me for this) for this project of the century, PJ and other guys are working on. Best luck!
I like your site very much and if I ever will make my own, it won't be too different!
Paul, that is an incredible project - congratulations and keep at it - it has to be done.
I thought your Italian coachbuilders feature was excellent and I'm looking to do something similar in the future.
I'd gladly give you a hand if you need any help.

I myself have a database of manufacturers since 1940.
This includes all the major/minor makers plus the one-offs.
It does not include commercial vehicles or single-seat racing cars.

The fields are - Make, Years of Production, Manufacturer name, town, country, (owner/designer), Cross reference to other makes, Production numbers, Remarks (inc. type of car produced), Reference (to magazine or book article) and whether an image is available.
There are currently 7,280 makes listed plus 12,300 photos/images

Secondly I also have a database of sports racing cars from 1940.
Same parameters with 1,900 makes. Photos/images are included in the main database.

Thirdly I have a small database of Formula Junior single seaters.
More or less the same parameters with 355 makes and 350 photos/images currently.

You have probably realised by now that my main interest is in sports racing cars (post WWII) and I'm working on on an encyclopedic publication covering this field.
I'm also very keen on the coachbuilders aspect but haven't had the time to start that yet.

I'm sure many others are working on various aspects of motoring from veteran to today's concept cars.

Wonderful - keep up the good work.
Looks VERY interesting!
As soon as you make it pubblic or your enciclopedia is ready I have to have it!
Have you got a website?
Your databases seem to be organized like mine, the only difference is that I have them all togheter, I can sort them into different categories and I listed also each model.

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #110 on: December 07, 2010, 01:24:41 PM »
Like you my databases are on Excel and yes I have a website - www.sima-int.com - but it's got nothing to do with cars!

I was a long time member of the Guild of Motoring Writers in the UK and was editor of several automotive industry magazines in the 1970s.

However I have been working mainly in the maritime field for the last thirty years.
"woodinsight" was the name of a newsletter I did on the analysis and forecasting of the yacht market over 30 metres, so now you know where the name came from.

It's only in the last two years that I have renewed my interest in the automobile field and am now devoting my time to this.
I intend to further develop my existing databases to include more detail on the individual cars but as you know this takes time.

Offline DeAutogids

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2752
  • Country: be
  • Puzzle Points 204
  • This text is just for you!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • dAuto.nl
Re: The Final List
« Reply #111 on: December 08, 2010, 06:24:48 AM »
I started as a kid too, but I still am.

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #112 on: November 05, 2011, 08:47:28 AM »
Time for an update.
A friend of mine helped me to convert the old Excel file in Access and I'm working on 'Letter P'.
I will be considerably slower now, but the work is always in progress.
When times will come, I'll be glad to have the help of anyone has a list, and some of you already gave it to me.
12800 makers and counting.

Offline Arunas

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 10420
  • Country: lt
  • Puzzle Points 644
  • Nulla tenaci invia est via
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • https://www.cartefacts.com
Re: The Final List
« Reply #113 on: November 05, 2011, 09:07:02 AM »
Time for an update.
A friend of mine helped me to convert the old Excel file in Access and I'm working on 'Letter P'.
I will be considerably slower now, but the work is always in progress.
When times will come, I'll be glad to have the help of anyone has a list, and some of you already gave it to me.
12800 makers and counting.

My greatest respect! Keep up a good work, PJ!

Offline woodinsight

  • Professional
  • *
  • Posts: 13671
  • Country: fr
  • Puzzle Points 557
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2011, 12:24:52 PM »
Time for an update.
A friend of mine helped me to convert the old Excel file in Access and I'm working on 'Letter P'.
I will be considerably slower now, but the work is always in progress.
When times will come, I'll be glad to have the help of anyone has a list, and some of you already gave it to me.
12800 makers and counting.
I'm keeping my list of makes up to date every day.
Makers (inc. one-offs) from 1940 to date currently over 8,000.....
I haven't considered including makers prior to WW II, the task would be time consuming for me at the moment - but you never know!

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2012, 06:18:39 AM »
Another update:
15020 makers
91700 models
about 50 books in there (including encyclopedias and huge volumes)...


Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2013, 05:40:39 PM »
Time for another update:
15820 makers
97620 models
more than 60 books and 400 magazines.


Offline Otto Puzzell

  • Founder and
  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 31556
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 444
  • Open field, with a window.
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • AutoPuzzles
Re: The Final List
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2013, 04:58:27 AM »
 :thumbsup:
You wanna be the man, you gotta Name That Car!

Offline faksta

  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 4613
  • Country: ru
  • Puzzle Points 409
  • Russian Racer
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2013, 12:42:22 PM »
That is more than simply impressive, that is, dare I say, one of the largest databases in the world?

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2013, 02:22:17 PM »
Thank you but far from that.
There are hundreds of makers out there that are simply not in any of my books but they do exist.
I'm working on a way to ...include... them in my list and probably you will all be invited in this project soon... ;)

Offline autospeurder

  • *
  • Posts: 201
  • Country: za
  • Puzzle Points 0
  • Contributor
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #120 on: November 26, 2013, 01:54:27 AM »
Time of coming out.
I have a database with 6500 entries (brands) of small car producers (only road cars) after 1943.
My definition of small is a production of less then 100.000 cars per year (in ALL the years after 1943).
That leaves out Porsche (D) and Jaguar (GB).
They must have build at least one driveable car/prototype and had a plan to sell their car(s).
Latest entry: Classic and Sports Replicars (ZA)

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #121 on: November 26, 2013, 09:12:24 AM »
Very interesting...I've noticed that many of us are working on a similar project. I already received some samples of lists by some other members and here and there you can always find new names.
Who else is working on a list like that?
I know for sure 10 of us: one of brazilian cars, 5 like mine with all there is to list, 2 about coachbuilders, one about racers and one about off-roaders).
It will be great if we can join our efforts and the result can be quite interesting.
I'll be happy to help anyone who'll need more info.
I'm sure no one will just give away his loved work just like that, but I have an idea on how we can help each other.

Offline Iluvatar

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 2511
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 245
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • www.automobileitaliana.it
Re: The Final List
« Reply #122 on: November 29, 2013, 12:21:59 PM »
Very interesting...I've noticed that many of us are working on a similar project. I already received some samples of lists by some other members and here and there you can always find new names.
Who else is working on a list like that?
I know for sure 10 of us: one of brazilian cars, 5 like mine with all there is to list, 2 about coachbuilders, one about racers and one about off-roaders).
It will be great if we can join our efforts and the result can be quite interesting.
I'll be happy to help anyone who'll need more info.
I'm sure no one will just give away his loved work just like that, but I have an idea on how we can help each other.
That's an interesting topic... the purpose of a complete list looks to be a common feature of the AP members...  :D
In fact I think that the first "list" we have in common is AutoPuzzles itself... and maybe we can at first work on AP to obtain a full list of the cars we saw on AP...
It's not an easy work, and the first problem is the classification criteria...
I gave (and still give) my little contribution with the Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini AP Museums... but it was something I started by myself, and maybe if we discuss a common working method we can tidy up all the AP car database...
It's just an idea...  :)
L'Automobile Italiana automobileitaliana.it
Facebook automobileitaliana
Instagram @autoitaliana

Offline Paul Jaray

  • Editor
  • *
  • Posts: 22324
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 2073
  • MVP
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: The Final List
« Reply #123 on: November 30, 2013, 11:47:14 AM »
Very interesting...I've noticed that many of us are working on a similar project. I already received some samples of lists by some other members and here and there you can always find new names.
Who else is working on a list like that?
I know for sure 10 of us: one of brazilian cars, 5 like mine with all there is to list, 2 about coachbuilders, one about racers and one about off-roaders).
It will be great if we can join our efforts and the result can be quite interesting.
I'll be happy to help anyone who'll need more info.
I'm sure no one will just give away his loved work just like that, but I have an idea on how we can help each other.
That's an interesting topic... the purpose of a complete list looks to be a common feature of the AP members...  :D
In fact I think that the first "list" we have in common is AutoPuzzles itself... and maybe we can at first work on AP to obtain a full list of the cars we saw on AP...
It's not an easy work, and the first problem is the classification criteria...
I gave (and still give) my little contribution with the Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini AP Museums... but it was something I started by myself, and maybe if we discuss a common working method we can tidy up all the AP car database...
It's just an idea...  :)

In another place here in this site, I proposed a project. It was a book about Autopuzzles. Something to prepare before the 10years anniversary.
I have a precise idea in mind: it can't be a real book for several issues, 1st of all it will be too big and it will contain a lot of pictures with unknow copyright. It can be an ebook or a pdf and it can contain also small pics...who cares, they are all here! The book will be divided in some interesting sections (selfmade-custombuilt-eigenbaus, coachbuilt, flying cars, university projects, etc...) but the real interesting feature will be at the end: all the cars featured here will be sorted according to diferent parameters: there will be a list in alphabetical order, a list by country, a list of 'based' cars (just think at all the Mini-based, Jaguar-based, Fiat-based, and so on) and so on.
Once you have the original list ready, you can sort it as you prefer according to the 'tag' you like and have your book ready as you like it.
I started myslef and I'm going to complete this list for my own use since there were no volunteers in such a gigantic task.
It is bigger than you may think...just to give you an idea, once I started I listed (with all those tags) less that 1000 cars and a total of 41 pages...in the meantime the numbers of pages increased of more than 50 and the pages are around 1000!
It means I'm definetly too slow for it and probably a combined action will bring some results.

Offline Iluvatar

  • Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 2511
  • Country: it
  • Puzzle Points 245
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
    • www.automobileitaliana.it
Re: The Final List
« Reply #124 on: December 01, 2013, 05:55:13 AM »
It means I'm definetly too slow for it and probably a combined action will bring some results.
What about planning an equipe work?
L'Automobile Italiana automobileitaliana.it
Facebook automobileitaliana
Instagram @autoitaliana