AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Non-Automotive Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ultra on February 02, 2014, 03:30:14 PM
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Zigziggityzoo, we review you too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosos
Zig is the one guy who seems to be answering most of the posts that myself and others have raised to the BoD, which I really wish he wouldn't do, because he is site staff, and it really seems to be complicating the issue and his level of involvement. Zig, I appreciate the information, but I don't feel that the responsibility for those answers falls upon your shoulders unless you are a member of the BoD currently, or were at that time, or you were somehow involved in this group buy at a greater capacity than we (normal members) knew of.
Yes, Zig does seem to have an awful lot to say within the frame of this whole AR-15 deal. He started multiple threads for Jeff on the topic and was the most prominent poster throughout all the related threads. Jeff had no better advocate throughout than his buddy Zig.
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When I first read this one my jaw dropped:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by donald150
JEFF
Now tell us how much you made from each lower
Just so I'm clear, why is that germane to MGO, as an organization, or you, as a member?
Zig has no clue why knowledge the president of the org has about a group buy is "germane" to either the org that he constructed the business deal with or a member asking for that knowledge to be shared.
The fount of ethical faux pas flows...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
It's important to remember that the price you saw listed: $250, was "worth it" in your eyes. So even if Jeff got these for free from CCGunworks and all the money went to his pocket, that shouldn't matter. That's the price you agreed to for the product you were promised.
All that said: Back of the envelope math:
$250 (price you paid)
- $10 (FFL xfer)
- $8.75 (Credit Card Fee)
______________________
$231.25 leftover.
Of that, a certain amount went to the manufacturer. The rest (if any) went to Jeff's pocket.
Jeff is free to divulge how much he made. CCGunworks is free to divulge what he charged Jeff if he wants. Then we'll all know. But CCGunworks/Jeff are under no obligation to tell you the wholesale price of these lowers if they don't want to tell you.
Do you, gentle reader, think that our Administrator understands that Jeff was bound by fiduciary responsibility to report this info to the org? I don't think he understands. Whether he was acting in a personal capacity or not, his duties as president of the org would require him to report this info to the board and to the membership.
This one sent my jaw aplunge again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
Legally speaking, the State would want sales tax on the whole $250. Which would make the sales tax portion $14.15 per lower.
$250
-14.35 (sales tax - if paid... not sure if it was)
-8.75 (credit card)
-10 (FFL Fee paid)
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=$217.10 remaining.
And at 97 lowers sold (I believe Jeff was keeping 3 for himself) that leaves $4083.70 in profits if it was $175/lower, $1658.70 if it was $200/lower.
Based on the information I received at the beginning of this, I believe the price was $190 per lower + $10 for the FFL fee is a total cost of $200. And if that's true, that is about $2628.70 + 3 lowers in "profit" for Jeff. He was telling people on the BoD that there was a new quad in it for him before the sale went (Which should give you a picture of how much $$ He was looking to make, and should tell you that the BoD was fully aware of the potential profit to be made). I believe this picture to be the most accurate of the ones drawn.
I'm personally of the belief that the person taking all the risk is deserving of all of the responsibility and reward. Had the lowers come out as high-end and perfect as described, no one would really have cared.
I also think that there should have been more full-disclosure at the beginning, but I hedge that with the fact that people thought the price was worth it for the product described.
Anyway, my opinions only.
Does one wonder why he thinks that is the most accurate picture? Or where he got all the info?
Jeff told him.
Still, at this point, now Oct 7, our Administrator has no conception that Jeff had a fiduciary responsibility to report all of the info he knew regarding this deal to the members.
Ethical faux pas continue...
An excuse has been offered that Zig started the AR 15 thread for Jeff in order to ensure the poll was structured correctly. You can see how the thread was worded by Zig at the beginning right here:
A message from MGO BoD President:
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...d.php?t=234272
Now, being that there was no poll in this thread, one wonders what the excuse for this post of Zig's might be:
From the MGO Board of Directors President:
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho....php?p=2001964
It appears clear to me that it added an air of officiality in order to help Jeff. I bet it would have helped Chewy's sales if he could get his sale posted under the Admin banner within the forum. Sure does help to make it appear official...
That the president used Zig's Admin pulpit from within the forum to market the item, making money off of MGO logo-ed items while keeping it secret and not reporting the actual costs and potential profits to the members when requested, just increases the clarity of the ethical violations. A clarity that appears lost on our intrepid Administrator
Faux pas for the ethical road?
The clincher:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
BOD members act either on their own, or as members of the BOD.
In the case of the MGO Lowers, the BOD opted to not officially organize the group buy. Jeff still wanted it to happen, so he offered to organize the group buy on his own. The BOD allowed Jeff to use the MGO logo on a group buy he put together.
Um, no. Flat out no. Board of directors have sworn to always put the interest of the org above their own in any business relating to the org.
That is exactly what fiduciary responsibility means.
If your business in any way comes into contact with the orgs business, as a Board member, you are duty bound to put the orgs interests above your own.
No exceptions.
Zig clearly does not understand this concept. His own words, quoted throughout this thread, indicate as much with no room for error.
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Zigziggityzoo, due to your lack of humility in all of your official and unofficial business here in the forum and your complete failure to understand what the ethical responsibilities are of the board that you serve, you are the only member of the MGO staff in 2014 to deserve the Ultra News Channel's dreaded two thumbs down rating.
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Ok, I'll just got back from a quite busy week-end and some of my neurons are still to be reactivated.
I tried to read it a couple of times but can't get the meaning of that...who are these people? What happened?
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Ok, I'll just got back from a quite busy week-end and some of my neurons are still to be reactivated.
I tried to read it a couple of times but can't get the meaning of that...who are these people? What happened?
A forum and an organization I am a part of has an Admin who has no understanding of ethics or fiduciary responsibilities. When I pointed as much out, they deleted the above post and banned me for a month.
They can't delete it here and they can't ban me either.
This thread will be end up an expose, of a very thorough nature, on what an unethical organization consists of and how they try to hide their shady behaviors.
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Got it, thank you.
I think an introduction to that post, to let everyone knows what's behind it would be even more ...exposing!
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Got it, thank you.
I think an introduction to that post, to let everyone knows what's behind it would be even more ...exposing!
You are correct. I will add one later tonight and I'll bring even more of their shady behaviors to light in this thread then as well.
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Originally Posted by Ultra
Originally Posted by esq_stu
Ultra,
I'm sending this thread to the dump. Starting off a thread with a personal attack doesn't belong here. If you think there's some kind of wrongdoing, it belongs with the BOD.
Stu
What is the personal attack? Please tell me. I'll be very happy to edit it out.
esq_stu:
It's a thread about Zig. I'd do the same with a thread about you if it was public. The mods do occasionally debate how to address individual member's conduct, but not publicly.
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In the formation of a group buy, does the BOD find it troubling that an Administrator of the forum would portray the buy in such a manner as to make it seem like an officially MGO sponsored event?
A message from MGO BoD President:
Originally Posted by Barrettone
MGO is in the process of ordering another round of lower recievers with the new "3-Gun" logo, and wish to guage interest so we know how many we should order. The lowers would be priced at $250 and would include the FFL transfer fee. The point of sale would be in Howell, Michigan. These will NOT be forged lowers. They will be CNC milled aluminum billet lowers anodonized in black. This would be a limited run (initial order is 100, with 100 more available if the poll warrants it), and they will be available in 45-60 days. Please indicate in the poll how many you would purchase if these were available. Keep in mind that these things go for $250-$400 without the FFL transfer (if you can find them).
Please post below any comments, and if you would want to purchase more than 10 lowers. Thank you for your input.
Jeff LaFave
MGO President
www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235893 (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235893)
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From the MGO Board of Directors President:
Originally Posted by Barrettone
OK fellow MGO’ers…Here are the instructions for ordering your Limited Edition AR-15 MGO Lower Receivers from CC Gunworks:
These 100 1st series units will be available to order at a rate of $250 each (FFL transfer fee included, limit 3 per peson) for 72 hours beginning on Thursday, March 28th at 6:00 pm. At that time, a button will appear in this post, and that link will allow you to make a $250 payment securing your MGO Lower. The payments will be made to my Square account, and any credit/debit card with a visa, mastercard, american express or discover logo can be used with Square. After 100 units are sold or 72 hours has elapsed (whichever comes first), orders will be closed, and that button will disappear so no more orders can be made. If any of those 100 units are left for order after the initial 72 hour offering, they will be re-released, 48 hours later, (April 2nd at 6 pm) with a new button being used. HOWEVER, they will then cost $275 each, and the FFL fee will no longer be included in the purchase price. This is being done to ensure that people don’t sit on the fence. You are either in or out. If you choose to procrastinate, the lowers will cost you more money (if they are even available). This is my bulk order, and it is being run by my rules. I do not want this to drag out for a long time. Don’t like my rules? Don’t order. I don’t want to hear your whining.
If they all sell within the 72 hours, I will consider releasing a 2nd series of 100 if they can ALL be sold. Otherwise, we will have to wait for demand to increase to a level that warrants buying another 100 (they must be done in lots of 100). The poll is showing that roughly 170 could be bought, but some people are just saying they are “interested”, and not a “for sure” buy. CC Gunworks is stating that they will need up to 90 days to make delivery of these units. Once they are available for pick-up, it will be posted on this thread, along with instructions for picking up the lower(s). Please return to this thread on March 28th, and the payment button will appear here for you to place your order. On your payment in the memo area, I will need your name, address, phone number, screen name, and email address so that I have what I need to process your order. You can request a specific series number, but I cannot guarantee it. I can also assure you that I am taking unit #1 (call it Executive Privilege - sorry). THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS…PERIOD!!! If you decide you don’t want the unit, you will need to sell it when you get it. I am not making any exceptions. This is a big undertaking, and there are many demands on my time. Again, if you don’t like the rules, don’t participate.
Thanks everybody, and I, for one, can’t wait to get my lowers. These are gonna be SWEET!!!
Jeff LaFave
Link will appear just below this text when available:
Orders are suspended until further notice. All 100 of the first batch are sold. If a significantly large enough quantity of the second batch can be sold, another 100 could be ordered. PM Barrettone to be waitlisted.
Waitlist here: http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...d.php?t=236661 (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/sho...d.php?t=236661)
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235893 (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235893)
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On 3-19-2013 Administrator zigziggityzoo posted the following:
A message from MGO BoD President:
Originally Posted by Barrettone
MGO is in the process of ordering another round of lower recievers with the new "3-Gun" logo, and wish to guage interest so we know how many we should order. The lowers would be priced at $250 and would include the FFL transfer fee. The point of sale would be in Howell, Michigan. These will NOT be forged lowers. They will be CNC milled aluminum billet lowers anodonized in black. This would be a limited run (initial order is 100, with 100 more available if the poll warrants it), and they will be available in 45-60 days. Please indicate in the poll how many you would purchase if these were available. Keep in mind that these things go for $250-$400 without the FFL transfer (if you can find them).
Please post below any comments, and if you would want to purchase more than 10 lowers. Thank you for your input.
Jeff LaFave
MGO President
At that time the BOD had not approved any such buy and would never end up doing so.
Does it trouble the BOD that their Administrator would post that MGO is in the process of ordering another round of lower recievers with the new "3-Gun" logo when the BOD had not approved such a buy?
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1992439&postcount=1 (http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1992439&postcount=1)
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The AUP isn't merely incumbent upon the membership, it is also the guidelines the staff must follow.
If the staff goes rogue and deletes things that do not violate the AUP, how and where does a paying member protest such behavior?
Do tell....
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BOD's, the members here have all seen the posts, they've read the questions and their is a general lack of faith in your willingness to be ethical. Answering honest questions regarding Org staff and Org business is your fiduciary responsibility.
Why does the BOD's ignore the questions that could clear up the issues?
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MGO died in 2009 when knimrod got run out of there. Its more corrupt than politicians in Detroit.
Howdy hawgrider here.
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Welcome to Autopuzzles, Hawg. Check out the cars. Nowhere else on the web or in the world has a greater collection of rare car pics.
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Welcome to Autopuzzles, Hawg. Check out the cars. Nowhere else on the web or in the world has a greater collection of rare car pics.
Thanks Ultra. Lots to look at cool stuff for sure.
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I'm still waiting for anyone to explain how my review of Zig was a violation of the AUP.
Roundballer, let's see you take that question on...
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Good grief, it's all Greek to me. I must be living in a parallel universe. :o ;D