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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2021 => Topic started by: Allemano on August 07, 2010, 03:43:18 AM

Title: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Allemano on August 07, 2010, 03:43:18 AM
Please respond below if you know the make and model designation of this car.
One point for the right and complete answer!

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Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 18, 2010, 02:06:03 PM
moved.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: woodinsight on August 19, 2010, 01:45:32 AM
Based on a Healey?
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 19, 2010, 03:35:29 AM
No.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: barrett on August 19, 2010, 04:37:36 AM
Lincoln V12?
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 19, 2010, 04:41:17 AM
Neither.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: barrett on August 19, 2010, 05:04:44 AM
but American?
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 19, 2010, 05:39:38 AM
Yes, though the designer isn't American.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: barrett on August 19, 2010, 05:52:21 AM
okay, let's narrow it down...... one of the big three?
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 19, 2010, 01:19:33 PM
yes.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: MG Manic on August 21, 2010, 12:49:58 PM
Ford/Lincoln based?
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on August 21, 2010, 01:27:30 PM
Quote from: MG Manic on August 21, 2010, 12:49:58 PM
Ford/Lincoln based?
:)
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 01, 2010, 04:46:34 AM
Professionals!
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: DynaMike on September 01, 2010, 07:14:05 AM
The shape of the side windows reminds me of Letourneur & Marchand coachbuilders...
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 01, 2010, 07:25:15 AM
I don't know who made the body of this car, but I highly doubt that it was made by any of the European coach-working companies.
The key to solve this is to know who designed it, where and when. ;)
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 01, 2010, 07:44:33 AM
some correction: the designer actually was (sort of!) American, but that's only one half of the story...
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: 75america on September 01, 2010, 10:55:05 AM
The shape of the side windows reminds me of Judkins...
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 01, 2010, 11:29:02 AM
Not made by Judkins.
After some digging I've found out that the designer rented a garage back then and converted the car on his own.
Obviousely no other coachbuilder was involved.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: metalshapes on September 10, 2010, 04:11:08 AM
At first I thought it was done by Coachcraft, but I dont think that is right.

I do have a couple of pics of it ( cant remember where I found them )

Maybe the caption " Griffin" will be helpfull for someone...

Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 10, 2010, 04:22:13 AM
Wow! The builder himself standing in front of his car. That makes it a lot more interisting.
He already has that characteristic look.
'Griffin' isn't the name I have, though. It's not even similar!
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: spider murphy on September 21, 2010, 03:20:19 PM
I think it's the Paragon Coupé, designed by Albrecht Graf Goertz in 1939, built on a Mercury chassis.
The car was shown at the World Exibition in San Francisco in 1939.
Title: Re: Allemano's № 464
Post by: Allemano on September 21, 2010, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: spider murphy on September 21, 2010, 03:20:19 PM
I think it's the Paragon Coupé, designed by Albrecht Graf Goertz in 1939, built on a Mercury chassis.
The car was shown at the World Exibition in San Francisco in 1939.
Spot on! You're right of course!
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Allemano on June 24, 2011, 07:20:13 AM
More pics:
Title: Solved TGF-180: Mercury Goertz-Griffin 1940
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 07:40:18 AM
I'd like to know which car is this, who realized it and for whom. Tell me these three things and you'll have a point.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Iluvatar on September 02, 2013, 09:10:47 AM
Riva body?
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 09:30:11 AM
I believe this is a 1940 Mercury by Albrecht Goertz.
If so, I do not yet have for whom it was built but I am looking.
Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 09:34:54 AM
Quote from: Iluvatar on September 02, 2013, 09:10:47 AM
Riva body?
Not Riva.
Quote from: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 09:30:11 AM
I believe this is a 1940 Mercury by Albrecht Goertz.
If so, I do not yet have for whom it was built but I am looking.
Bill
Well...It's indeed the '40 Mercury of Albrecht Goertz, so you have already answered at the question "for whom"; the missing part is who did it!  Locked for Bill.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 10:24:01 AM
So that I don't get buried in this one, several sources say that Goertz built it for himself and that it was called "Paragon".
Or, as he was later a very famous designer for BMW amongst others, maybe he had a "Body Man" build it to his design and if so I have no clue and an hour of digging just runs me in the same circle.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 10:30:16 AM
I found a site where there are some pictures of the car, and where it is said this custom has been prepared for Goertz and not by him;  as everything on the net it may be wrong, I'll try to have some confirm of my source.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 10:36:05 AM
In the meantime, I may have found another lead and I have PM'd a fellow on another Forum who may have an answer.  I will post it if I get an answer.
Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 10:38:12 AM
I suppose this is the man...as He doesn't look like Goertz.  The picture has been posted by the Son of the man standing near the car, and He's said to be the maker.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 10:52:25 AM
Yes, same guy posted this somewhere on another Forum but I have not found it and I PM'd him on that Forum to see if he could give me the name of his father or company name or both. 

Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2013, 11:02:23 AM
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13386.msg120526#msg120526 ;)
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
Actually a repost...but Griffin is not the name I'm searching for.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 05:13:33 PM
Hi Fabrizio:

It has now been 7 hours since I sent a PM to the guy who said his father built or helped build this car and no answer.
It is a National Holiday here in the US so he may be engaged in some celebration or other.

In the spirit of open competition, please unlock the puzzle as another two hours of research using dozens of parameters and multiple websites has given me no more information.

Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 02, 2013, 05:19:34 PM
Bill, I think you can tell us the name of the guy you sent a PM, so if his name is the one I have you will have the point whenever he will replay or not, because your replay will be complete. Then, if it is not the same I will unlock.
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 05:53:08 PM
Unfortunately, Fabrizio, the man goes by his internet user name on the Forum in question.

That name is "BellyTanker, or Bellytanker" and I do not think this is the answer you are looking for.

If that is not correct, please go ahead and unlock the quiz.

Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: Bill Murray on September 02, 2013, 08:32:40 PM
OK. Fabrizio, another 2 hours and now I am done.

Possibly built by a man named Francis Griffin, or Eric Griffin.  Francis may be the wife of Eric.

The name of the firm of this family seems to be Kenz Muffler, doing business since 1953 which may fit into the time frame of the car being built.

I have obtained a phone number for what I assume is the son of the original owner of the firm and possibly the builder but I cannot call the number until maybe 1200 hours or so tomorrow due to the time difference.

If this answer so far is correct please let me know so I do not bother the present Mr. Griffin.

Edit:  I now remember the car was built in 1940 so Kenz Muffler may not be the correct company name

However, Bellytanker's name is Keith Griffen and the photos we have now all seen were donated to the internet by Keith/Francis Griffin.

Bill
Title: Re: TGF-180
Post by: targhediferro on September 03, 2013, 01:01:58 AM
Well done Bill! The name I have is actually Muffler, even if as you noticed the correct answer is Griffin (I didn't know that BellyTanker's name is Griffin). I think this car is fantastic, something different from later customs, quite a european-taste Mercury; thank you for your research, and a well deserved point.
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2013, 04:55:04 AM
Merged
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Bill Murray on September 03, 2013, 12:22:18 PM
To finish up on my part of this long saga, I just got off the phone with Keith Griffen and got some more information.

The car was indeed built by Francis Griffen, his father, and the photo with the man standing by the car in work clothing is Francis himself.  He and another chap owned a very small body shop in Glendale, California and this is apparently where the car was built.  Keith had the name of the body shop but it is lost in his data files somewhere and he will look for it again.  As a  point of interest, the convertible car behind the Mercury in the photo with his father is an Auburn that was apparently owned by Gary Cooper, who wrecked it and the two bodyshop owners purchased it and repaired it.

Keith had not seen my PM on the other Forum but said he would look at it tonight his time and if he could add anything he would contact me.

I am also going to contact the Glendale Chamber of Commerce and their Historical Society, if they have one, to see if I can find out any more information about the body shop his father was part owner of.

I also wish to give credit to Dale, "Avalanche" on this Forum, for giving me the contact information which he managed to find on the H.A.M.B. Forum.  He could have taken the question but he gave the information to me instead which I very much appreciate.

Cheers

Bill
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2013, 02:59:37 PM
Thanks for that extra information! Is it known when and how Albrecht Goertz did come into play?
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Bill Murray on September 03, 2013, 03:40:20 PM
I have to go out for a while and will write more when I return, but here is his biography for additional information.
Bill



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_von_Goertz
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2013, 03:46:52 PM
Quote from: Bill Murray on September 03, 2013, 03:40:20 PM
I have to go out for a while and will write more when I return, but here is his biography for additional information.
Bill



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_von_Goertz
Thanks, but I knew that bio on (German) Wiki. ;)
I was more after infos of his involvement on this particular Paragon project.
Title: Solved FW#7 'Paragon' Mercury 1939/40, by Graf Albrecht Goertz
Post by: fromwien on October 12, 2020, 05:17:41 PM
For one point please identify this car and the coachbuilder
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: fromwien on November 20, 2020, 04:25:18 AM
Up to the Experts
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: Iluvatar on November 21, 2020, 04:50:00 AM
Italian?
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: fromwien on November 21, 2020, 08:33:58 AM
Not Italian
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: FrontMan on November 21, 2020, 12:51:56 PM
Georges Irat by Labourdette?
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: knewit on November 21, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
based on Volkswagen
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: fromwien on November 21, 2020, 01:36:32 PM
Quote from: FrontMan on November 21, 2020, 12:51:56 PM
Georges Irat by Labourdette?
No
Quote from: knewit on November 21, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
based on Volkswagen
No
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: FrontMan on November 21, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
Duncan body?
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: 727 on November 21, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Is this vehicle from North America?
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: fromwien on November 21, 2020, 06:30:42 PM
Yes
Title: Re: FW#7
Post by: SACO on January 28, 2021, 05:12:44 PM
1940 Mercury by Albrecht Goertz !
Title: Re: Locked FW#7
Post by: fromwien on January 28, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Yes! Locked for you. Please tell me the car's name and year, then the point is yours
Title: Re: Locked FW#7
Post by: SACO on January 29, 2021, 02:26:43 AM
Mercury Paragon (New York 1939 ) by Albrecht Goertz !
Title: Re: Locked FW#7
Post by: fromwien on January 29, 2021, 05:48:20 AM
Correct! One more point is yours
Title: Re: Solved: Allemano's № 464 - Paragon Mercury Coupé by Albrecht Graf von Goertz
Post by: Wendax on January 29, 2021, 06:15:32 AM
Merged