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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2020 => Topic started by: gte4289 on April 10, 2020, 11:37:43 PM

Title: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: gte4289 on April 10, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Identify this vehicle (purpose, base, and coachbuilder) for a point.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on April 17, 2020, 04:34:42 PM
Experts?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: FrontMan on April 20, 2020, 09:28:57 AM
Shelvoke & Drewry refuse wagon? 1929 or so.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on April 20, 2020, 12:01:00 PM
Quote from: FrontMan on April 20, 2020, 09:28:57 AM
Shelvoke & Drewry refuse wagon? 1929 or so.
Refuse wagon, but not by Shelvoke & Drewry and a little bit later than 1929 or so.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: max on April 23, 2020, 04:28:37 PM
Thornycroft A1refuse cart, early 1930s?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on April 23, 2020, 05:32:46 PM
Quote from: max on April 23, 2020, 04:28:37 PM
Thornycroft A1refuse cart, early 1930s?
Early 30s, but not Thornycroft
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Bill d isere on April 24, 2020, 09:40:23 AM
Guy
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on April 24, 2020, 12:16:23 PM
Quote from: Bill d isere on April 24, 2020, 09:40:23 AM
Guy
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 01, 2020, 05:19:15 PM
Pros?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: pguillem on May 04, 2020, 08:55:05 AM
Any relation with Ahrens-Fox ?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 04, 2020, 09:01:16 AM
Quote from: pguillem on May 04, 2020, 08:55:05 AM
Any relation with Ahrens-Fox ?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: pguillem on May 04, 2020, 09:21:07 AM
Vulcan ?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 10:09:49 AM
Seems to be RHD so is it British?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 04, 2020, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 10:09:49 AM
Seems to be RHD so is it British?
Yes
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 10:59:37 AM
It could be a Lacre, but if it is I can't prove it.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 04, 2020, 11:56:21 AM
Quote from: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 10:59:37 AM
It could be a Lacre, but if it is I can't prove it.
It is not
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: pguillem on May 04, 2020, 09:21:07 AM
Vulcan ?
???
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 04, 2020, 12:17:48 PM
Quote from: Allan L on May 04, 2020, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: pguillem on May 04, 2020, 09:21:07 AM
Vulcan ?
???
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 05, 2020, 07:45:57 AM
It could also be a Dennis, but if it is I can't prove it either.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 05, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Quote from: Allan L on May 05, 2020, 07:45:57 AM
It could also be a Dennis, but if it is I can't prove it either.
Not a Dennis
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 05, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
Is it a Leyland?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 05, 2020, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 05, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
Is it a Leyland?
Not a Leyland
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 05:44:08 AM
Karrier?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 05:54:01 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 05:44:08 AM
Karrier?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 07:35:02 AM
A make which survived into the post-war period?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 10:11:42 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 07:35:02 AM
A make which survived into the post-war period?
Yes
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 11:41:01 AM
Scammell?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 11:41:01 AM
Scammell?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
Morris Commercial?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 03:46:29 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
Morris Commercial?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Karrier?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Karrier?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Maudslay?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Maudslay?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 05:43:21 PM
Crossley?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 05:56:45 PM
Tilling Stevens?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 06, 2020, 08:00:54 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 06, 2020, 05:43:21 PM
Crossley?
Quote from: Hiawatha on May 06, 2020, 05:56:45 PM
Tilling Stevens?
Neither. I have to say I'm surprised the donor chassis has been so difficult to identify.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 04:02:26 AM
In that case I assume it's a fairly major make.
How about Commer?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 04:40:10 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 04:02:26 AM
In that case I assume it's a fairly major make.
How about Commer?
Not Commer
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 05:49:41 AM
AEC?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 06:15:32 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 05:49:41 AM
AEC?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 07:00:23 AM
Albion?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 07:07:24 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 07:00:23 AM
Albion?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 07:22:04 AM
Ford?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 07:22:04 AM
Ford?
Yes, but under the brand ...
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 10:37:33 AM
Must be Fordson then.
It seems to be a version of their 2 ton truck, which I think they called AA (or TT?!)

Here's a picture of the prototype, but I don't think they made many versions of it:

Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 10:37:33 AM
Must be Fordson then.
It seems to be a version of their 2 ton truck, which I think they called AA (or TT?!)

Here's a picture of the prototype, but I don't think they made many versions of it:
Ford/Fordson 2-ton chassis is correct. It was tractor-based, unlike the AA/TT chassis. Your image shows the LHD prototype built in the US (purportedly the one-and-only US-built Fordson).

Coachbuilder?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 02:25:41 PM
Not much idea about coachbuilder.
I've Googled endlessly for your puzzle picture but nothing comes up.
There's very little about old dustcarts and their makers on the 'Net so I can't really find anything.
Eagle Engineering perhaps?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 07, 2020, 02:48:15 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 07, 2020, 02:25:41 PM
Not much idea about coachbuilder.
I've Googled endlessly for your puzzle picture but nothing comes up.
There's very little about old dustcarts and their makers on the 'Net so I can't really find anything.
Eagle Engineering perhaps?
Not Eagle
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 13, 2020, 07:58:47 AM
Glover Webb & Liversidge?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 13, 2020, 10:02:36 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 13, 2020, 07:58:47 AM
Glover Webb & Liversidge?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 14, 2020, 06:53:30 AM
Coachbuilder based in the London / Home Counties area?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 14, 2020, 12:32:03 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 14, 2020, 06:53:30 AM
Coachbuilder based in the London / Home Counties area?
Yes
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 14, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
Did they coachbuild purely commercial vehicles or passenger cars as well?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 14, 2020, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 14, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
Did they coachbuild purely commercial vehicles or passenger cars as well?
Purely commercial, as far as I'm aware
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 06:10:51 AM
Thomas Allsop?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 15, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 06:10:51 AM
Thomas Allsop?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 11:30:28 AM
Bonallacks?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 15, 2020, 11:37:25 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 11:30:28 AM
Bonallacks?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 12:08:41 PM
Dempster?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 15, 2020, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 12:08:41 PM
Dempster?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 12:48:41 PM
Longwell Green Coachworks?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 15, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 12:48:41 PM
Longwell Green Coachworks?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 05:34:53 PM
Thought not.
Straker-Squire?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 15, 2020, 05:41:36 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 15, 2020, 05:34:53 PM
Thought not.
Straker-Squire?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 03:59:48 AM
Bence Motor Bodies?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 16, 2020, 05:01:22 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 03:59:48 AM
Bence Motor Bodies?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 16, 2020, 05:36:32 AM
How about Harrington?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 07:19:40 AM
Or Eaton Coachworks?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 16, 2020, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: Allan L on May 16, 2020, 05:36:32 AM
How about Harrington?
Quote from: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 07:19:40 AM
Or Eaton Coachworks?
Neither
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Does the puzzle picture appear anywhere on the Internet or did you get it from a publication?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 16, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
Does the puzzle picture appear anywhere on the Internet or did you get it from a publication?
I found it online
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Thanks; I've Googled everything imaginable to bring up the image but I can't get it..
Did its builder build other similar vehicles?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 12:22:13 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 16, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Thanks; I've Googled everything imaginable to bring up the image but I can't get it..
Did its builder build other similar vehicles?
I found the image online while searching (unsuccessfully) for the answer to a puzzle in the BH. The image doesn't appear in a Google search for this specific vehicle, however. This is because the descriptive caption is part of the original image itself, and not in the accompanying (searchable) text.

The other vehicles by this coachbuilder that I have seen are not very similar.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 04:27:29 AM
Thanks

Is it a UK site?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 05:07:49 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 04:27:29 AM
Thanks

Is it a UK site?
Yes
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 11:53:25 AM
Not much chance of finding that then..
Buit by Osborne Motor Bodies?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 11:53:25 AM
Not much chance of finding that then..
Buit by Osborne Motor Bodies?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Lucas?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 02:27:10 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 02:20:17 PM
Lucas?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 03:31:36 PM
Park Royal?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 03:58:00 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 03:31:36 PM
Park Royal?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 05:42:45 PM
OK, but without the abiility to use what information has been ascertained so far to trace the picture on the 'Net, and the fact that information about commercial vehicle coachbuilders from this period is very thin on the ground, it's going to be purely a hit and miss affair guessing the right answer.
So, my last try (as I can't find any more appropriate coachbuilders) is Grose Ltd.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 17, 2020, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 17, 2020, 05:42:45 PM
OK, but without the abiility to use what information has been ascertained so far to trace the picture on the 'Net, and the fact that information about commercial vehicle coachbuilders from this period is very thin on the ground, it's going to be purely a hit and miss affair guessing the right answer.
So, my last try (as I can't find any more appropriate coachbuilders) is Grose Ltd.
Not Grose
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 18, 2020, 04:20:51 AM
Did the coachbuilder still exist after WW2?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 18, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 18, 2020, 04:20:51 AM
Did the coachbuilder still exist after WW2?
It appears so
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 18, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Based in North London?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Allan L on May 18, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Like Duple, for instance?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 18, 2020, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 18, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Based in North London?
No

Quote from: Allan L on May 18, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
Like Duple, for instance?
Not Duple
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 03:44:12 AM
West London?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 04:01:05 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 03:44:12 AM
West London?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 05:19:36 AM
South London?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 06:25:06 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 05:19:36 AM
South London?
I think the borough is now considered to be in South London, but it was part of Southwest London at the time.
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
Croydon?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
Croydon?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 09:20:06 AM
Kingston upon Thames?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 09:20:06 AM
Kingston upon Thames?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 10:15:12 AM
Richmond?
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 10:15:12 AM
Richmond?
No
Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 11:51:44 AM
Perhaps the coachbuilder was Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing of Wandsworth?
They coachbuilt many Ford vehicles and I've found the picture below of a very similar dustcart by them, descsribed as an "A.T.-Ford refuse collector"; it's not quite the same but it is awfully similar!:

Title: Re: GTE 352
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 01:45:42 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 11:51:44 AM
Perhaps the coachbuilder was Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing of Wandsworth?
Correct!
Title: Re: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 03:04:04 PM
Thanks!
Can you post your unmodified photo with the details included within the picture?
Would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 03:04:04 PM
Thanks!
Can you post your unmodified photo with the details included within the picture?
Would be appreciated.
Here you go:
Title: Re: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 05:45:12 PM
Thanks.
I note they call it a Ford rather than a Fordson, same as the picture I posted.
I think the name Fordson only appeared in the UK later in 1931.
I wonder how many they made? It's possible that the picture I found is the same vehicle in prototype form, which might have been modified - e.g. different wheels - when it was sold to Holborn Council.
I wonder if records exist anymore...
Title: Re: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: gte4289 on May 19, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
Quote from: Carnut on May 19, 2020, 05:45:12 PM
It's possible that the picture I found is the same vehicle in prototype form, which might have been modified - e.g. different wheels - when it was sold to Holborn Council.
Front wheels could have been flipped around
Title: Re: Solved: GTE 352 - 1931 A.T. Refuse Collector by Allan Taylor Engineering and Manufacturing Co.
Post by: Carnut on May 20, 2020, 04:03:01 AM
The front mudguards are different and the small side lights on the front are not there on the Holborn Borough Council vehicle, but other than that it looks just the same. The rear bodywork seems identical. I can't find anything at all about the vehicle on the Internet.