Author Topic: Autopuzzles needs your help.  (Read 4455 times)

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Offline Paul Jaray

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Autopuzzles needs your help.
« on: May 06, 2014, 10:25:33 AM »
The Editors/Admins are battling against Google Search by Image, which is completely contrary to the whole spirit of AutoPuzzles where we value fair play above all else.  The survival of the Site is at risk because of the actions of those who are not willing to play the game but take advantage of the available technology to unfairly solve puzzles posted in good faith.

We are very mindful of the threat to our existence from Google Search by Image, which continues to be used by a small number of members to gain points to which they are not entitled.

Fair play is an absolute must on our site and we are very proud of the fantastic community spirit practised by the vast majority of AutoPuzzles members...and some members suspected of cheating are currently under investigation. 

For that reason we need you help.
We are going to ask randomly at all Puzzlers how they have found the solution to some puzzle or other.
This will be done with no particular order and without any accusation to any puzzler.

Please confirm your acceptance of this policy.

Regards
The Editors
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:27:28 PM by Paul Jaray »

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 10:41:09 AM »
I will be the 1st...I'm going to explain how I found each one of the puzzles I'm going to find.

Offline D-type

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 11:13:03 AM »
I am in total agreement. 
I don't know how to use "Search by Image".  If I did I would not use it to solve a puzzle.  I might succumb to temptation and google one I had tried to find - but then I wouldn't post the answer.  What's the point?
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Offline nicanary

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 11:38:18 AM »
I am in total agreement. 
I don't know how to use "Search by Image".  If I did I would not use it to solve a puzzle.  I might succumb to temptation and google one I had tried to find - but then I wouldn't post the answer.  What's the point?

Quite so. When all's said and done, it's just a game, a bit of fun for car-loving enthusiasts. Hence my sometimes inane/idiotic guesses.

Since reaching the Pros, I'm being shown as the charlatan I am.  ;D

I'm all in favour of this new approach. Mind you' I've no idea what the puzzle car is.......
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 12:31:02 PM »
Thank you.
It is a game, but some of us spend hours looking for challenging puzzles and it's frustrating to have them solved that way.
We have to react and that's why we need all of your cooperation.  ;)
 

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 01:00:30 PM »
I totally agree..First of all I don't even know how to use Google search by image, and like Nicanary and other pros my progress has been painfully slow after my 200th point.
I am lucky enough to have a rather extensive collection of period magazines and have been interested in cars, buses and trucks for over 50 years. However show me anything made before 1935 and I am totally lost. I have to admit that sometimes you strike lucky and find answers when trying to find something else. My favourite find was a baseball player polishing his car..I just googled "Gentleman polishing his Packard" and..
Bingo!

Offline nicanary

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 02:13:13 PM »
I totally agree..First of all I don't even know how to use Google search by image, and like Nicanary and other pros my progress has been painfully slow after my 200th point.
I am lucky enough to have a rather extensive collection of period magazines and have been interested in cars, buses and trucks for over 50 years. However show me anything made before 1935 and I am totally lost. I have to admit that sometimes you strike lucky and find answers when trying to find something else. My favourite find was a baseball player polishing his car..I just googled "Gentleman polishing his Packard" and..
Bingo!

I thought "gentleman polishing his  Packard" was a euphemism!

Sorry, as usual I am lowering the standard of the forum...
I must be right - that's what it says on Wikipedia

Offline Wendax

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 02:27:01 PM »
I fully agree with you, Paul. I have never used and surely will never use GSI to answer a puzzle. I have used it a few times to trace back some of my own puzzles when I noticed that I had saved too few facts to answer questions of fellow puzzlers.  :D
When the puzzle car is within the range of my personal interest I usually consult my books first and then good old Google with a wide range of search terms (sometimes unicode tables are a great help to google cyrillic words!. The detective work is what AutoPuzzles is about. It is important to keep that spirit.

Offline Carnut

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 02:51:38 PM »
I concur 100% with PJ in this and he has my full support; furthermore I will follow his lead.
I must say though D-type, although I would never ever solve a puzzle by searching by image I do use Google extensively to find cars, both puzzles and solutions.  Without doing that  it would be very hard indeed to solve many puzzles.
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Offline D-type

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 03:56:25 PM »
That's exactly what I meant, I would NOT use Google "Search by Image", but I do use Google by keywords or Google for images from keywords as well as random guessing.
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Offline Ehhxekt

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 04:14:06 PM »
Fair play is an absolute must on our site and we are very proud of the fantastic community spirit practised by the vast majority of AutoPuzzles members...
I wholeheartedly agree...

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 04:39:48 PM »
Hi All:

I accept the policy and will identify/explain my method of finding an answer to a given puzzle in the future, assuming of course that I ever get to answer a puzzle anymore ;D ;D.

Not to make a joke, really, I understand it takes away from the spirit of this Forum to use Google SBI.

I am curious, though, do we explain our methodology on every solution or are we just agreeing to being "audited" from time to time.  That can take up a lot of bandwidth to explain it on every correct answer. 

As a thought, the technology has improved since 2012 when OP listed a few techniques to "mask" photos taken off the Internet in such a way as to  make them unreadable to the SBI program.  Perhaps if there are now more/new/different ways to do this it would be an idea to post them here.

Bill
Cheers
Bill

Online mekubb

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 04:44:57 PM »
I'm in of course !

Offline Oguerrerob

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 05:01:04 PM »
I was banned because GIS. so, I agree not to use it for solving puzzles.

Offline serra

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 05:11:12 PM »
It is clear that it was easier for people when there was no google search by image . I do not use Google search by image , what's challenge and what“s the merit for finding a autopuzzle whit this tool.

I have been collecting collecting photos of cars on the internet for more than 10 years and I have over 16GB of pictures. I use my files , my intuition and the pages in English and Spanish I know to start searching and if I need to use traditional google search because I have not lot of books. I really like racing cars, special cars (from USA , GB and Australia ) and fiberglass cars and lately I have dicoverd buses.  I ussually do not like to ask questions for solving autopuzzles I only do it if I think I need . Those who have been playing a long time  I can imagine that many times you have found others in your archives, books or web only looking for an autopuzzle

For me few weeks ago it was gratifying to find an autopuzzle, but now taking several hours searching for being suspected for cheating is not a good rewarding. I have responded to whom asked me how I found his puzzles, so I am the first that thinks all measures to avoid suspicion are well receibed. I would like sugest that all  the images were modified to avoid suspicion about  the use of google search by image.

I would like to say that if someone suspects from me and he does not want me to try to solve their autopuzzles he can tell me, I spend much time and efforts solving puzzles for being under continuous suspect  and I do not like playing this manner.

Sorry for my poor English I have used Google traductor.

Online oko94

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 05:16:11 PM »
I have no problem with the new policy, but, honestly, I think the only way to prevent people from using GSBI is to make it ineffective, by using photos that have never been published on the net before, that is to say :
- personal photos taken at car events
- personal and altered scans of books, magazines or brochures

I will probably mostly use these techniques for my forthcoming puzzles.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 06:38:57 PM by oko94 »

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 05:19:15 PM »
Gents.......

I am on my third glass of wine, which at age 74 plus has it's effects so bear with me.

OG just posted he had been banned for using "GIS".

"GIS" is the internationally accepted term for "Google Image Search" which is accomplished by TYPING in LETTERS some sort of search criteria.  Name of a vehicle, name of a country and a vehicle, name of a vehicle and year and country etc. etc.

What we are fighting here is the Google function "Search By Image" or Google SBI or Google GSBI depending on the country where you live.  You capture an image from a Forum such as this one, you open Google Image, you select the icon for Google Search By Image, you choose the image you wish to match and upload it to Google Search By Image.

If it has been picked up by Google and is not modified, you will get a match and in the context of this Forum, that is cheating.

Google Image Search, "GIS" is accepted by all of the Forums I belong to as a perfectly legitimate way of trying to solve whatever type of puzzle/question/quiz as it is alphabet driven, not photo image driven.  Without the possibility of using Google, whether in the "Google Image Search" function or the normal "Google Search" function for written information, most of the puzzles on this Forum and dozens of others I belong to would never be solved.

I sincerely hope the Editors/Administrators/Monitors on this Forum understand the different terms and I hope the membership does as well.

Bill
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 05:35:43 PM by Bill Murray »
Cheers
Bill

Offline Carnut

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 06:06:51 PM »


I sincerely hope the Editors/Administrators/Monitors on this Forum understand the different terms and I hope the membership does as well.

Bill

The Editors certainly know the difference!  Googling for pictures is one thing; Using Image Search is quite another..
Interests in life:  Cars, cars, cars - oh and ..er..cars

Offline Bill Murray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 06:19:40 PM »
Hi Norman:

My comment was rhetorical, not meant to offend anyone.
It was, in part, motivated by OG's comment that he was banned for using "GIS" or Google Image Search.
If that was truly the case, then it was done in error.
Cheers
Bill

Offline fyreline

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 07:48:59 PM »
I understand that I am an anachronism. I was raised as what I hope to be a gentleman, and if there are rules to whatever pursuit you find yourself involved in, you follow them. If you do not agree with said rules, you either strive to change them or you decline to play. Here's where I'm going with this:

1. I certainly agree that using Google Search By Image (or any other similar image-searching engine) is not playing fair. It involves no skill or knowledge other than the ability to push a few keys, sit back, and let someone else's research answer your question. It is prohibited on this (and many other) "name that _________" forums. Honorable players will not use it. Dishonorable players will not care.

2. The first priority is making certain that everyone - ALL - participants are aware that use of this feature is banned. I believe most of us know this by now, but as we hopefully attract new members they need to know this. The fact is certainly available to them, but unfortunately a lot of new responders just jump right in before they read all the rules.  That's just the way the internet is, and I don't have a good answer for it. Is there a way to require any new poster to read, and agree to abide by the rules of the forum before he or she can respond to their initial puzzle?

3. It is easy to become weary of seeing the same, somewhat accusatory disclaimer about GSBI on so many puzzles . . . "We know some of you are cheating".  No one likes to have their integrity continually challenged. Those who intend to cheat will continue to do so, and will further their dishonesty by fabricating an explanation of how and where they got the answer. I don't really see how a "spot audit" will help to cut down on truly dishonorable responders. Maybe it will, I guess we should at least give it a try.

4. I agree that using photos that do not appear on the internet for puzzle car subjects is the ultimate deterrent to GSBI abuse . . . But that sincerely limits the amount of material available to draw puzzle cars from. Those of us with larger libraries of obscure photos have a definite advantage there. I have not yet posted a puzzle car (or very few, it's been so long I don't actually recall) because I participate as a moderator in enough other Automobile Quiz sites that my time is somewhat limited to "host" a quiz. I do enjoy searching at my leisure for the solution to the excellent puzzles our more senior members provide.

5. To my way of thinking, the search is at least half of the fun. Some of the memorable (and yes, not so memorable) vehicles I have discovered while hot on the trail of the latest puzzle car are true gems. To utilize GSBI is to rob yourself of that experience. I won't do it, and neither should you. I have no way of knowing exactly how much of a problem this is on the forum, although I would agree that some of the more difficult and obscure vehicles being quickly and accurately identified by a newer member may be somewhat suspicious. Perhaps that particular car was a pet passion of his . . Or not?
So proceed with "spot audits" if you must, I hope it helps. As I said, I am an anachronism. My word as a gentlemen should be enough.

But that's only true among gentlemen, isn't it?  Play on, my friends. Don't let the dishonest few diminish our fun. Sorry for the lengthy rant. Perhaps I need a nap.
"You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are NOT entitled to your own facts"

Offline Joćo

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 09:46:19 PM »
Fair play is an absolute must on our site and we are very proud of the fantastic community spirit practised by the vast majority of AutoPuzzles members...
I wholeheartedly agree...

Second that. Count on me guys.

Offline Paul Jaray

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 03:45:49 AM »
1st of all, I'd like to clarify 2 things:

1. We are not asking to explain each time how did you find a puzzle. Everything will proceed as before. Please be patient and don't feel offended if sometimes, randomly and without any implicit accusation, we'll ask how did you find a certain puzzle.
2. Google (or any other search engine) is a valid tool to find a puzzle. There's no harm in looking for a car using google and typing keywords. When you do that, you are playing the right way, searching, browsing and spending hours using some hints you find. On the other hand, if you pick the puzzle pic and use Google's 'Search By Image' function you are looking for the 'puzzle pic', where it comes from, just to get the point! And that's against the spirit of Autopuzzles.
 

Offline Carnut

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 04:25:57 AM »
Hi Norman:

My comment was rhetorical, not meant to offend anyone.
It was, in part, motivated by OG's comment that he was banned for using "GIS" or Google Image Search.
If that was truly the case, then it was done in error.

It was for using Google Search by Image; there can be a bit of confusion over Image Search and Search by Image..
But he accepted the decision and has now left it behind thankfully.
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Offline Otto Puzzell

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 04:34:54 AM »
I will be the 1st...I'm going to explain how I found each one of the puzzles I'm going to find.

Excellent - me too!

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Re: Autopuzzles needs your help.
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 05:00:07 AM »
Hi,
I agree with the fight against Google Search by Image... but I'm not sure this is really the best solution...
If someone wants to gain puzzle points in an unfair way (I still don't understand why someone want to do it...) he can be unfair also in the explanation of his solution...
For instance... (it's only an example...  ;) ) PJ has posted some screenshots of his folders with the pictures... nice... but how do we know that the pictures were there before he solved the puzzle?? Maybe he solved it with GSBI and then saved the pictures...  ;D
So... I think that the only solution to avoid the problem is to post puzzles that cannot be found via GSBI... and the best way to do it is to search the picture in this way before posting the puzzle... if Google find the picture... it's time to use some graphic camouflage on the image... until google does not find it anymore...
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