There once was a movie called "The Loneliness of the Long-distance Runner".
Here we have The Loneliness of the Professional Puzzler. Once, when they were only two categories, he could watch new and lovely puzzles be born in the Rookie Section, and he could reasonably hope they would last long enough for their genitor to think that they were big boys now, they could try their luck in the upper category... there the Pro, his keen eye on alert, would catch them unprepared and throw them in his bag.
Now he has to wait twice longer until they reach his playground, the third and upper category. And he knows that before this they'll have to escape a bunch of cunning experts, who will seize all the juiciest preys and leave only the toughest old-timers for him to feast upon.
I see them pass everyday, those fine cars I think only I should identify.
I see my fellow Pro, when a Feature Writer status allows him to post in the lower categories, uttering melancholic comments and painfully restraining himself from giving an exact ID.
Life is hard on the Professional Puzzler.
I try to restrain myself from solving Expert puzzles, as I shall get kicked upstairs soon enough!
It is frustrating to be able to post comments but not solutions at lower levels!
Hmmm...
Yes, but c'est la vie.
Quote from: Ray B. on January 30, 2009, 04:46:53 AM
Yes, but c'est la vie.
and drives me to the eau de vie!
Maybe some terms could be imposed for Expert and Rookie puzzles? For example, a week or even less. I mean, after a week being a Rookie or an Expert puzzle the thread has to be moved upstairs. This could help Pros, as I think unlike them, Rookies and Experts need more time to identify the photographs and sometimes it happens eventually...
Sounds reasonable - you certainly have got my approach right as if I have no idea at all I can't be bothered, but if I think I know and can prove it quickly then I will. (and of course if I really do know, it's an instant reply!)
Quote from: faksta on January 30, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
Maybe some terms could be imposed for Expert and Rookie puzzles? For example, a week or even less. I mean, after a week being a Rookie or an Expert puzzle the thread has to be moved upstairs. This could help Pros, as I think unlike them, Rookies and Experts need more time to identify the photographs and sometimes it happens eventually...
Imposed is too strong of a concept. Strongly encouraged by the membership is a much better way of expressing the idea, IMHO.
You guys are the ones who make such determinations. Use polite peer pressure to get new puzzle posters to understand these ideas. It was always the discussion that about 5-7 days was long enough in any category. Let people know.
:huh:
Another sign of the Pro Puzzler syndrome. As I experience it anyhow:
You need some action, and there's not much going on for you because you hit your head on the wall searching the solutions of those puzzles you have the right to solve, but they are buried so deep. So you hope some guys are going to solve your own puzzles, not the easy ones, no, those tough ones they could solve so easily if they only KNEW.
And nobody shows, or they miserably fail. And you'd be willing to give them as many clues as they like, you have to restrain yourself.
and another sign...I see a rookie puzzle I think I know (or I may easily find with a not-so-quick search), but then I think "no-way I'm going to waste my time looking at thousands of pictures or reading tens of books, at the end it will be solved before it reaches the pro's shores." but it doesn't happen and when it arrives at our table, I think " it's useless starting to look for it now, other pros will get it before me, it's been posted for weeks!". When I see that it's been laying for some days in the pro section, then I can start to look for it!!
Remember the Boy Scout motto!!!!
Do not eat yellow snow?
Many motto's - one purpose.
Time for another moan!
I notice that a number of formerly frequent posters have almost disappeared once they have Professional status, e.g. SeaLion, Grobmotorix and Ehhxect.
As has been said (but perhaps not in as many words), by the time the Experts have had a go, there's not much of real interest left - particularly for people like me who are pretty underwhelmed by the multitude of modern concept cars and indistiguishable pressed steel that some seem to have an inexhaustable supply of.
I've only been in this position for a month or two, but I find I'm not even looking at the site much.
It's a bit like our banks which reward loyalty by offering lower interest rates to established customers than they do to newcomers.
I would like to post classic cars (Pre-war ones) but each time I do it, no one guess!
I have a list of 12 italian cars, and few guesses, plus other unnoticed ones.
I can post other cars as the ones we love, but I feel discouraged because a modern kitcar seems to be more interesting than those, for our friends.
Take a look at these, and feel free to guess!
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=8873.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9394.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9413.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9422.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9521.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9522.0
Thanks PJ, but I think you've foxed me with most of them.
I shall have a go wwhen I've more time.
Should the pro limit be moved to 300 puzzles solved?
I don't think it would change what is making Allan feel sore.
Allan, I also have a small dozen that might fit your specialty in the Pro sections (but I guess you know that)!
The simple fact is that those left in the Pro section are really tough. But we cannot complain about that, being Pros, can we?
The amount has gone down some, which is a good thing because it became discouraging.
The last point is: if we have more old cars lovers, there will be more old car puzzles. If we have more kit car lovers, we'll have more kit car puzzles.
So my advice to Allan would be: in order to keep an even balance, make some recruits among guys like you.
We can complain.
The problem, if there is a problem, is that you score 200 just by being here for a long time and answering a few each month, not because you have any idea about the kit cars and concept cars and korean rip-off cars that are all that's left for us much of the time.
PJ has found me out - I am not that knowledgable about the uncharted corners of the pre-war cars of a lot of countries, although I have to say that I still find them more interesting, even if I can't find what they are.
Quote from: Allan L on October 16, 2009, 02:30:43 PM
The problem, if there is a problem, is that you score 200 just by being here for a long time and answering a few each month, not because you have any idea about the kit cars and concept cars and korean rip-off cars that are all that's left for us much of the time.
Which brings my 300 threshold question to the front burner.
Quote from: Allan L on October 16, 2009, 10:46:31 AM
Time for another moan!
I notice that a number of formerly frequent posters have almost disappeared once they have Professional status, e.g. SeaLion, Grobmotorix and Ehhxect.
As has been said (but perhaps not in as many words), by the time the Experts have had a go, there's not much of real interest left - particularly for people like me who are pretty underwhelmed by the multitude of modern concept cars and indistiguishable pressed steel that some seem to have an inexhaustable supply of.
I've only been in this position for a month or two, but I find I'm not even looking at the site much.
It's a bit like our banks which reward loyalty by offering lower interest rates to established customers than they do to newcomers.
That's why I proposed the Pro's Only section. Not as a final resting place for puzzles everyone has had a whack at, but as a place where Pro's have first whack.
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 16, 2009, 03:02:24 PM
Quote from: Allan L on October 16, 2009, 10:46:31 AM
Time for another moan!
I notice that a number of formerly frequent posters have almost disappeared once they have Professional status, e.g. SeaLion, Grobmotorix and Ehhxect.
As has been said (but perhaps not in as many words), by the time the Experts have had a go, there's not much of real interest left - particularly for people like me who are pretty underwhelmed by the multitude of modern concept cars and indistiguishable pressed steel that some seem to have an inexhaustable supply of.
I've only been in this position for a month or two, but I find I'm not even looking at the site much.
It's a bit like our banks which reward loyalty by offering lower interest rates to established customers than they do to newcomers.
That's why I proposed the Pro's Only section. Not as a final resting place for puzzles everyone has had a whack at, but as a place where Pro's have first whack.
That seems like a good idea to me.
A good incentive to work towards, before you become a Pro.
( in other words, keep it visible to everybody but regulate who can post there...)
You have what you discuss in the Pros and Feature Writers section.
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?board=29.0
:-\
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 16, 2009, 03:02:24 PM
That's why I proposed the Pro's Only section. Not as a final resting place for puzzles everyone has had a whack at, but as a place where Pro's have first whack.
Yes, let's do it. Otto was right but we kind of forgot what the idea was.
Quote from: Ray B. on October 16, 2009, 07:13:53 PM
Yes, let's do it. Otto was right but we kind of forgot what the idea was.
I'm a seer. ;)
In the fishmonger's till.
Quote from: Allan L on October 16, 2009, 10:46:31 AM
Time for another moan!
I notice that a number of formerly frequent posters have almost disappeared once they have Professional status, e.g. SeaLion, Grobmotorix and Ehhxect.
As has been said (but perhaps not in as many words), by the time the Experts have had a go, there's not much of real interest left - particularly for people like me who are pretty underwhelmed by the multitude of modern concept cars and indistiguishable pressed steel that some seem to have an inexhaustable supply of.
I've only been in this position for a month or two, but I find I'm not even looking at the site much.
It's a bit like our banks which reward loyalty by offering lower interest rates to established customers than they do to newcomers.
I have been thinking about this problem a lot recently, I'm in exactly the same position as Allan, the puzzles in the Pro section are, by their very definition, very difficult, and I, like Allan (and probably quite a few others here) only try to solve puzzles of cars that I am interested in or want to find out more about. The number of puzzles that I can solve, or attempt to solve, or want to solve is far fewer than before I reached the 200 point mark.
Obviously it would be unfair for me to delete my neilshouse account and start neilshouse2 as a rookie, unfair to the other puzzlers and to the people posting the puzzles, and it's just not cricket!.
As the site is growing and as time goes on there will be more and more members reaching Pro status, so I suggest this, have some more categories above the Pro level, maybe a Master level and a Genius level. This would ensure a good mix of puzzles throughout the levels, and also give an incentive to reach the next level which at the moment Pro puzzlers cannot do.
I would be interested in others views on this.
Quote from: neilshouse on January 29, 2010, 11:57:49 AM
.... so I suggest this, have some more categories above the Pro level, maybe a Master level and a Genius level...
:faint:
I have an idea, that is the way I operate:
If I have more puzzles to post, I try to figure out which ones are the hard ones, which ones will be very hard and the easy ones.
Then I divide it into groups and post them respectively in the 3 sections: in this way, the easy ones will be for the rookies only, and the pro will have the chance to guess the ones that I consider hard, but may be well known by someone, like the Lockwood, that was spotted by Allemano within minutes!
Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them. That is why that category exists.
Quote from: Ultra on January 29, 2010, 12:55:12 PM
Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them. That is why that category exists.
Huzzah!
Quote from: Ultra on January 29, 2010, 12:55:12 PM
Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them. That is why that category exists.
I don't see why the
Pros and Feature Writers section
should exist. If a pro feels that a puzzle is difficult enough he can post it straight into the
Pros section - if he's right only the Pros will answer and if it happens to be in the narrow knowledge of a Rookie or expert so be it.
Most of us have expertise in a limited field. Personally I haven't a clue about South American cars, US custom cars and hot rods, Eastern European cars, or European and American, specialist coach builders but I am interested in competition cars. I then find it extremely irritating to see a puzzle in the
Pros and Feature Writers doing nothing when I may know the answer. I can understand the original topic here, of the Pros seeing puzzles they can answer just sitting in the Rookies or Experts, but I feel an elitest Pros and Feature Writers
only section is not the answer.
If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a
rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.
I have a pretty useless idea. I post it, because I cannot make good use of it anyway.
Allan L said it took him a long time to get to 200 points.
My stupid idea consist of looking at how many puzzles you solve per week (or month) and that the status is applied like say:
<2 solved puzzles in a week -> Rookie
>2 but <20 puzzles per week -> Expert
>20 puzzles solved per week -> Pro
But no idea how to do this practically.
Quote from: D-type on May 13, 2011, 08:02:31 AM
Quote from: Ultra on January 29, 2010, 12:55:12 PM
Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them. That is why that category exists.
I don't see why the Pros and Feature Writers section should exist. If a pro feels that a puzzle is difficult enough he can post it straight into the Pros section - if he's right only the Pros will answer and if it happens to be in the narrow knowledge of a Rookie or expert so be it.
Most of us have expertise in a limited field. Personally I haven't a clue about South American cars, US custom cars and hot rods, Eastern European cars, or European and American, specialist coach builders but I am interested in competition cars. I then find it extremely irritating to see a puzzle in the Pros and Feature Writers doing nothing when I may know the answer. I can understand the original topic here, of the Pros seeing puzzles they can answer just sitting in the Rookies or Experts, but I feel an elitest Pros and Feature Writers only section is not the answer.
If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.
Just to add to what I've posted in one of woodinsight's puzzles on this subject, it is vital that the Pro's have a game to play as well.
Without totting things up accurately but just looking at it approximately, there are currently about 100 unsolved puzzles in the Rookie section, 90 in the Experts, 100 in the Pro's and 100 in the Black Hole. So Rookies have nearly 400 puzzles to go at, Experts have about 300 and Pro's have about 200 (Pro and Black Hole boards) plus just 13 in the PAFW board.
I really don't think Rookies or Experts can say that is unfair, when there are just 13 puzzles Rookies can't guess at and about 113 that Experts can't.
Why should the Pro's not be able to have a bit of fun not generally available to everyone?!
Quote from: Carnut on May 13, 2011, 11:03:32 AM
Why should the Pro's not be able to have a bit of fun not generally available to everyone?!
Exactly! :thumbsup:
In my mind the existence of the Pros and Feature Writers section serves as an incentive to members to write an article or two for the site.
We have a good number of very knowledgeable people on here and I'm sure that we all have a great deal of car related information in our heads as well as our experiences with cars, that could, with a bit of effort, result in some very interesting articles.
Quote from: neilshouse on May 14, 2011, 10:15:59 AM
In my mind the existence of the Pros and Feature Writers section serves as an incentive to members to write an article or two for the site.
We have a good number of very knowledgeable people on here and I'm sure that we all have a great deal of car related information in our heads as well as our experiences with cars, that could, with a bit of effort, result in some very interesting articles.
This!!!!
I think you are rather missing my point.
The "Mahrajah's Rolls Royce?" has been languishing in PAFW for 22 months. At least three puzzles have been moved into PAFW from elsewhere. Several are moribund so why not move them out into the experts.
I don't object to the concept in principle - only in the way it is being used.
Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.
Quote from: Carnut on May 14, 2011, 07:46:25 PM
Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.
Not that inactive - GRAYWOLF's profile says "Last active 24th April 2011
Quote from: D-type on May 15, 2011, 04:32:45 AM
Quote from: Carnut on May 14, 2011, 07:46:25 PM
Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.
Not that inactive - GRAYWOLF's profile says "Last active 24th April 2011
I didn't look at his profile - I just thought I hadn't seen any posts from him in ages!
Why don't you PM him and suggest it's time to move this geriatric puzzle?!
Is that allowed? Or expected?
I though that was the job of the Administrator or Moderator and not for ordinary members to interfere.
Quote from: D-type on May 17, 2011, 06:40:17 AM
Is that allowed? Or expected?
I though that was the job of the Administrator or Moderator and not for ordinary members to interfere.
It is the role of everyone here that can do so politely. You seem eminently qualified for that role.
BTW: lots of Expert puzzles are waiting to be moved to Professionals.
This time I spare these laggards, but next time I'll post the links. ;)
Quote from: Allemano on May 18, 2011, 03:43:15 AM
BTW: lots of Expert puzzles are waiting to be moved to Professionals.
This time I spare these laggards, but next time I'll post the links. ;)
I'm clean! 8)
I received a PM from D-Type, suggesting that I should move a few of my remaining puzzles from the PAFW board to the Pros section. He has already, in this same thread, questioned the necessity of this PAFW board, and Otto posted an answer with which I fully agree.
Quote from: D-type on May 13, 2011, 08:02:31 AM
If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.
"
rigidly applied"? Man, I wouldn' t like to have you as a prime minister!
@ D-type: So, logically, I replied to you that I wouldn't and why. I won't open that debate again here.
Now, for you and all puzzlers to read, here is what this brings to my mind:
I already, out of my own will and once, I believe, because of the same suggestion by I forgot who, did what you asked me.
But there is a common practice at Autopuzzles, proved time after time, that seems to suit everyone: The guy who posted the puzzle is the sole decider of what he does with it: move it, where, when, declare it solved, by who, for how many points, etc. If every puzzler starts sending his fellows puzzlers PMs about what they should do, this place is soon going to become a mess much worse than a teenager's room.
What do you say?
Your task, is to find a constructive hobby..to augment your time on autopuzzles. Thereby alleviating your lonely puzzle symptoms. Maybe get a project car to work on..if you are very ambitious..you may get some plywood, styrafoam, plaster, fiberglass, gelcoat, sandpaper drafting(graph paper) & create your very own kit car body design & post it as an autopuzzle..see then if it can be identified. :)
Quote from: Ray B. on June 17, 2011, 04:39:43 AM
I received a PM from D-Type, suggesting that I should move a few of my remaining puzzles from the PAFW board to the Pros section. He has already, in this same thread, questioned the necessity of this PAFW board, and Otto posted an answer with which I fully agree.
Quote from: D-type on May 13, 2011, 08:02:31 AM
If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.
"rigidly applied"? Man, I wouldn' t like to have you as a prime minister!
@ D-type: So, logically, I replied to you that I wouldn't and why. I won't open that debate again here.
Now, for you and all puzzlers to read, here is what this brings to my mind:
I already, out of my own will and once, I believe, because of the same suggestion by I forgot who, did what you asked me.
But there is a common practice at Autopuzzles, proved time after time, that seems to suit everyone: The guy who posted the puzzle is the sole decider of what he does with it: move it, where, when, declare it solved, by who, for how many points, etc. If every puzzler starts sending his fellows puzzlers PMs about what they should do, this place is soon going to become a mess much worse than a teenager's room.
What do you say?
in Post #43 Carnut said
QuoteWhy don't you PM him and suggest it's time to move this geriatric puzzle?!
So that's what I did (although I still feel that it's something a moderator should do, not an ordinary member)
I don't see what 's in common between Graywolf's puzzle, which is two and a half years old, and mine, just two weeks old.
Nothing in common in respect of age. I didn't look at the dates, I simply felt that they were in the wrong place if you want to draw on the expertise of the whole forum so I suggested you move them. For some inexplicable reason you appear to have taken umbrage at my suggestion.
Quote from: D-type on June 17, 2011, 05:47:33 PMFor some inexplicable reason you appear to have taken umbrage at my suggestion.
It happens to all of us at one time or another. Letting it slide would seem to me the prudent course of action.
I like to move my puzzles, often & give everyone a chance at them. I will say again: It is important to get yourselves a hobby to compliment your times when you are not able to enjoy autopuzzles. I like the puzzles to be in control of the person who has posted the puzzle. I wish to also say the nail that is exposed gets hammered down & all of you are whining to much over trivial matters. Please do find another hobby to compliment your efforts on autopuzzles..you will see that you then have more fun & enjoyment on autopuzzles. ;)
Is that 'flipper' gas cap from a Barracuda?
No, it is a plastic lower bezel with an aluminum filler cap..connected to a standard 11 gallon vw beetle gas tank.
Quote from: Ultra on June 17, 2011, 06:49:25 PM
Letting it slide would seem to me the prudent course of action.
Ultra is right and I'll follow his advice (and whcgt's) and turn to my other hobby, philosophy, who teaches us that, if it may be legitimate to want to punch your opponent in the nose, it is usually ridiculous to try to have the last word.
Quote from: whcgt on June 18, 2011, 04:55:08 AM
No, it is a plastic lower bezel with an aluminum filler cap..connected to a standard 11 gallon vw beetle gas tank.
Looks trick :thumbsup:
The regularly spaced exhausts are closer to those of the fake Duesenberg than the 2 + 2 of the genuine Auburn. But there again Mike Ayin's replica Auburn has themregularly spaced
My apologies for posting here, but as one of the second class citizens that make up the majority of the forum I am excluded from adding my suggestions and contributions on the subject thread.
Quote from: D-type on June 23, 2011, 04:58:22 PM
The regularly spaced exhausts are closer to those of the fake Duesenberg than the 2 + 2 of the genuine Auburn. But there again Mike Ayin's replica Auburn has themregularly spaced
My apologies for posting here, but as one of the second class citizens that make up the majority of the forum I am excluded from adding my suggestions and contributions on the
subject thread.
Many other "second class" citizens around here have improved their status by contributing an automotive writing. This includes many non-native English speakers.
What's your excuse? :-\
I don't have any excuses for not having contributed a feature. In fact I am working up something.
I don't have an issue with having some puzzles only open to Pros and Feature Writers, I fully understand the logic. But I do feel that in some cases the threads posted shouldn't be there. I'm pleased to see that now, in general, puzzles are no longer being left for weeks on end languishing in the Rookies or Experts sections when responses have been exhausted but are being moved up in good time. They are also being moved from Pros to the Black Hole and in some cases clues provided to help close them out. This must mean that the Pros have got more to chew on, which was one of the stated reasons for setting up the P & FW board..
However, if one is genuinely asking members "Can you help me identify this car?" it seems a bit pointless to pose the question in a section of the forum where 80% or so of the members cannot respond. Whether it's one-off US custom cars or Italian ambulances is irrelevant, the logic is the same. It is conceivable that someone who has not submitted 200 correct answers might have something to add to the pool of information.
Edit: I've just noted that this is my 1000th post :)