The Loneliness of the Professional Puzzler

[Otto Puzzell]

Yes, let's do it. Otto was right but we kind of forgot what the idea was.

I'm a seer. 

[Allan L]

I'm a seer. 

Where's yer Roebuck, then?

[Otto Puzzell]

In the fishmonger's till.

[neilshouse]

Time for another moan!
I notice that a number of formerly frequent posters have almost disappeared once they have Professional status, e.g. SeaLion, Grobmotorix and Ehhxect.
As has been said (but perhaps not in as many words), by the time the Experts have had a go, there's not much of real interest left - particularly for people like me who are pretty underwhelmed by the multitude of modern concept cars and indistiguishable pressed steel that some seem to have an inexhaustable supply of.
I've only been in this position for a month or two, but I find I'm not even looking at the site much.
It's a bit like our banks which reward loyalty by offering lower interest rates to established customers than they do to newcomers.

I have been thinking about this problem a lot recently, I'm in exactly the same position as Allan, the puzzles in the Pro section are, by their very definition, very difficult, and I, like Allan (and probably quite a few others here) only try to solve puzzles of cars that I am interested in or want to find out more about. The number of puzzles that I can solve, or attempt to solve, or want to solve is far fewer than before I reached the 200 point mark. 
Obviously it would be unfair for me to delete my neilshouse account and start neilshouse2 as a rookie, unfair to the other puzzlers and to the people posting the puzzles, and it's just not cricket!.
As the site is growing and as time goes on there will be more and more members reaching Pro status, so I suggest this, have some more categories above the Pro level, maybe a Master level and a Genius level. This would ensure a good mix of puzzles throughout the levels, and also give an incentive to reach the next level which at the moment Pro puzzlers cannot do.
I would be interested in others views on this.

[Ultra]

I would be interested in others views on this.

As am I.

[Paul Jaray]

.... so I suggest this, have some more categories above the Pro level, maybe a Master level and a Genius level...

[Paul Jaray]

I have an idea, that is the way I operate:
If I have more puzzles to post, I try to figure out which ones are the hard ones, which ones will be very hard and the easy ones.
Then I divide it into groups and post them respectively in the 3 sections: in this way, the easy ones will be for the rookies only, and the pro will have the chance to guess the ones that I consider hard, but may be well known by someone, like the Lockwood, that was spotted by Allemano within minutes!

[Ultra]

Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them.  That is why that category exists.

[Otto Puzzell]

Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them.  That is why that category exists.

Huzzah!

[D-type]

Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them.  That is why that category exists.

I don't see why the Pros and Feature Writers section  should exist.  If a pro feels that a puzzle is difficult enough he can post it straight into the Pros section - if he's right only the Pros will answer and if it happens to be in the narrow knowledge of a Rookie or expert so be it.

Most of us have expertise in a limited field.  Personally I haven't a clue about South American cars, US custom cars and hot rods, Eastern European cars, or European and American, specialist coach builders but I am interested in competition cars. I then find it extremely irritating to see a puzzle in the Pros and Feature Writers doing nothing when I may know the answer. I can understand the original topic here, of the Pros seeing puzzles they can answer just sitting in the Rookies or Experts, but I feel an elitest Pros and Feature Writers only section is not the answer. 

If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.

[DeAutogids]

I have a pretty useless idea. I post it, because I cannot make good use of it anyway.

Allan L said it took him a long time to get to 200 points.
My stupid idea consist of looking at how many puzzles you solve per week (or month) and that the status is applied like say:

<2 solved puzzles in a week -> Rookie
>2 but <20 puzzles per week -> Expert
>20 puzzles solved per week -> Pro

But no idea how to do this practically.

[Carnut]

Keep in mind guys, you can always post puzzles directly into the Pros and Feature Writers sections so that only you guys get a shot at them.  That is why that category exists.

I don't see why the Pros and Feature Writers section  should exist.  If a pro feels that a puzzle is difficult enough he can post it straight into the Pros section - if he's right only the Pros will answer and if it happens to be in the narrow knowledge of a Rookie or expert so be it.

Most of us have expertise in a limited field.  Personally I haven't a clue about South American cars, US custom cars and hot rods, Eastern European cars, or European and American, specialist coach builders but I am interested in competition cars. I then find it extremely irritating to see a puzzle in the Pros and Feature Writers doing nothing when I may know the answer. I can understand the original topic here, of the Pros seeing puzzles they can answer just sitting in the Rookies or Experts, but I feel an elitest Pros and Feature Writers only section is not the answer. 

If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.

Just to add to what I've posted in one of woodinsight's puzzles on this subject, it is vital that the Pro's have a game to play as well.

Without totting things up accurately but just looking at it approximately, there are currently about 100 unsolved puzzles in the Rookie section, 90 in the Experts, 100 in the Pro's and 100 in the Black Hole.  So Rookies have nearly 400 puzzles to go at, Experts have about 300 and Pro's have about 200 (Pro and Black Hole boards) plus just 13 in the PAFW board.

I really don't think Rookies or Experts can say that is unfair, when there are just 13 puzzles Rookies can't guess at and about 113 that Experts can't.

Why should the Pro's not be able to have a bit of fun not generally available to everyone?!

[Otto Puzzell]

Why should the Pro's not be able to have a bit of fun not generally available to everyone?!

Exactly! 

[neilshouse]

In my mind the existence of the Pros and Feature Writers section serves as an incentive to members to write an article or two for the site.

We have a good number of very knowledgeable people on here and I'm sure that we all have a great deal of car related information in our heads as well as our experiences with cars, that could, with a bit of effort, result in some very interesting articles.

[Ultra]

In my mind the existence of the Pros and Feature Writers section serves as an incentive to members to write an article or two for the site.

We have a good number of very knowledgeable people on here and I'm sure that we all have a great deal of car related information in our heads as well as our experiences with cars, that could, with a bit of effort, result in some very interesting articles.

This!!!!

[D-type]

I think you are rather missing my point.

The "Mahrajah's Rolls Royce?" has been languishing in PAFW for 22 months.  At least three puzzles have been moved into PAFW from elsewhere.  Several are moribund so why not move them out into the experts.

I don't object to the concept in principle - only in the way it is being used.

[Carnut]

Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.

[D-type]

Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.

Not that inactive - GRAYWOLF's profile says  "Last active 24th April 2011

[Carnut]

Yes, agree with that.
If they're not solved quickly (2 weeks?) then they should be moved, perhaps to the Pro's section itself - or elsewhere.
Generally they are - I think the one you are referring to was posted by a now-inactive member.

Not that inactive - GRAYWOLF's profile says  "Last active 24th April 2011

I didn't look at his profile - I just thought I hadn't seen any posts from him in ages!
Why don't you PM him and suggest it's time to move this geriatric puzzle?!

[D-type]

Is that allowed?  Or expected?

I though that was the job of the Administrator  or Moderator and not for ordinary members to interfere.

[Ultra]

Is that allowed?  Or expected?

I though that was the job of the Administrator  or Moderator and not for ordinary members to interfere.

It is the role of everyone here that can do so politely. You seem eminently qualified for that role.

[Allemano]

BTW: lots of Expert puzzles are waiting to be moved to Professionals.
This time I spare these laggards, but next time I'll post the links. 

[Otto Puzzell]

BTW: lots of Expert puzzles are waiting to be moved to Professionals.
This time I spare these laggards, but next time I'll post the links. 

I'm clean! 

[Ray B.]

I received a PM from D-Type, suggesting that I should move a few of my remaining puzzles from the PAFW board to the Pros section. He has already, in this same thread, questioned the necessity of this PAFW board, and Otto posted an answer with which I fully agree.

If we must have an exclusive elitist section, can I respectfully suggest a rigidly applied minimum of 2 weeks in the Pros and Feature Writers, or 1 week without a further answer, then move it to the Pros.

"rigidly applied"? Man, I wouldn' t like to have you as a prime minister!

@ D-type: So, logically, I replied to you that I wouldn't and why. I won't open that debate again here.

Now, for you and all puzzlers to read, here is what this brings to my mind:
I already, out of my own will and once, I believe, because of the same suggestion by I forgot who, did what you asked me.
But there is a common practice at Autopuzzles, proved time after time, that seems to suit everyone: The guy who posted the puzzle is the sole decider of what he does with it: move it, where, when, declare it solved, by who, for how many points, etc. If every puzzler starts sending his fellows puzzlers PMs about what they should do, this place is soon going to become a mess much worse than a teenager's room.

What do you say?

[whcgt]

Your task, is to find a constructive hobby..to augment your time on autopuzzles. Thereby alleviating your lonely puzzle symptoms. Maybe get a project car to work on..if you are very ambitious..you may get some plywood, styrafoam, plaster, fiberglass, gelcoat, sandpaper drafting(graph paper) & create your very own kit car body design & post it as an autopuzzle..see then if it can be identified.