Puzzles Rulebook - Please Read Before Posting in this Puzzles Area

[Ultra]

Experts or Pros, got any good Pre-War puzzles?  I think they will fit right in here.


Experts, if you find yourself wanting to answer one or many of the new found puzzles in here get busy getting 200 solved puzzle points or, better yet, write us all a Feature Article.  We could all use something good to read.

:idea:

[Otto Puzzell]

Puzzles Rulebook

The following rules have been developed so that AutoPuzzles members understand what actions are considered OK, and which are not. Those that are prohibited, as spelled out below, will be dealt with by the admins in the following manner:

First time offense: a written warning within the thread in which the rules infraction occurred

Second offense: A 7-day ban from participation in the puzzles. You will receive an e-mail notification of the banning, and a notice will be posted in the thread in which the rules infraction occurred.

Three or more offenses: The admins of this site will consider a longer temporary ban, or a permanent ban. You will receive an e-mail notification of the banning, and a notice will be posted in the thread in which the rules infraction occurred.


Rules, Part 1: Modification of posted pictures:

The following picture modifications are A-OK, and are considered by consensus to be acceptable.

1.   Change color, or change to black-and-white or sepia tone.
2.   Obscure or delete telltale background elements.
3.   Obscure or delete badges, logos and number plates.

The following picture modifications are not OK, and are considered by consensus to be unacceptable and unsportsmanlike.

1.   Replace design elements from one vehicle with those of another (wheels, grille, etc.)
2.   Photoshop modifications that change the basic configuration of a car (change a coupe to a roadster; make a Tyrelll  P34 a four-wheeled car, etc).
3.   Photoshop modifications that place a vehicle in an incorrect time or place.
4.   Reversing a picture to make an LHD vehicle appear RHD, or vice-versa.


Rules, Part 2: Posting links that compromise the integrity of other puzzles.

It is incumbent upon the poster of a puzzle to declare an answer correct. Sometimes, members like to post the links to sites where they have found the answer to a puzzle, in an attempt to offer "proof" that their answer is correct. While this may seem harmless, it has also compromised the puzzle sources of many member who cannot afford to purchase expensive volumes of automotive history.

Some members may notice that the puzzle poster may, from time to time, include a "photo credit" link under a puzzle picture, after the puzzle is solved. This is done when the puzzle picture is clearly copyrighted, or when the source site – often a "Friends of AutoPuzzles" listed site – has granted permission to use their content, in return for a photo credit.

Note: Links to other sites and sources are welcome in non-puzzle posts and threads, except when such information is then linked to within a solved puzzle.


Rules, Part 3: Placing a "Lock" or "Hold" on Puzzles:

Locking of Puzzles: Putting a "lock" or "hold" on Puzzles, to allow another AutoPuzzles member to further research and complete an answer, thereby precluding guesses by other AutoPuzzles members until a time specified by the Puzzle's creator, is at the sole discretion of the Puzzle's creator. If no such "lock" or "hold" hold has been put in place by the Puzzle creator, the Puzzle shall be considered open to all AutoPuzzles members who are otherwise eligible to answer Puzzles in that section of the Forums.


Rules, Part 4: Stating Puzzle-Specific Rules

If the creator of a Puzzle wishes to employ "fair play" rules of any fashion in a Puzzle they create, such rules should be stated in the initial post. When those rules are at odds with the rules posted for each Puzzle section, the established and posted AutoPuzzles rules shall take precedent.


Rules, Part 5: Taking Your Leave of AutoPuzzles? Tell us!

Suggestion to all Puzzle Posters: If you have planned an extended absence at AutoPuzzles, or if circumstance has imposed an absence, please communicate the expected duration of your absence in the "News, Information and Feedback" section of the Forums. When possible, please provide the AutoPuzzles admin staff with an answer key for your remaining Puzzle(s), if you cannot readily estimate the duration of your absence, or expect not to return.


Rules, Part 6: Awarding Points for Puzzles

The points awarded for solving a Puzzle, or a part of a Puzzle, are at the sole discretion of the Puzzle's creator. It is a generally accepted practice at AutoPuzzles to award 2 points for the solution of a Puzzle that has proved to be exceptionally difficult, as evidenced by its relegation the "Black Hole" section of AutoPuzzles.

Rules, Part 7: Use of Google Search by Image to circumvent the spirit of AutoPuzzles

AutoPuzzles is a place where car guys can have fun by sharing their knowledge of cars, and learning about other cars by exploring, as a detective, the other puzzles. One of the mechanisms we use to measure the knowledge and sleuthing ability of our members is the puzzle points system.

With the advent of Google Search by Image, many points are being awarded to people who seem to have knowledge of cars that appear only one place on the entire internet. AND, in many cases, their 'knowledge' matches exactly the information on those singular sources. It's quite apparent when this method of cheating is employed, and cheating in this way is an affront to the very spirit of this site. If the editors conclude that cheating of any type has taken place, steps 1, 2 and 3 from the top of this thread (1: warning; 2: temporary ban and 3: permanent ban), will be employed by the AutoPuzzles editors and administrators.

====================================================================

Ultra's P.S.

One User Profile per AutoPuzzles member.

Willingly or willfully undermining the team of administrators and their attempts to bring you the best website possible, here or elsewhere around the web, is grounds for banning from the site, temporarily or permanently.  This is to be judged by the administrators, at their discretion, and the judgment is NOT open for appeal.

[Paul Jaray]

Rule 1&2 are OK for me!

[@re]

Aye, captain. I'm in!

Still, there might be cases in which the first rule may be unclear, as for example when I deleted the Alfa scudetto. In those cases, I think a warning should be discussed rather than issued immediately.

[Otto Puzzell]

Hmmmm....

Anyone else have an idea how to handle the scudetto scenario?

[Ray B.]

Both rules are OK with me.
As for the scudetto scenario, @re, you of all puzzlers should know this is no real problem: if a puzzler is tempted to use such a car he ha two solutions:
- whether he completely crops out the part of the car where such a detail appears. You do it quite often. I'm not so fond of this, but it's a solution.
- whether, as it has been suggested, he eventually DOESN'T USE that car at all. This won't kill him, after all, and the Earth will still turn.

[@re]

I will comply with the rules.

Edit: I just went through the roughly 370 pictures I currently have stored for later posting, and there are maybe two that are borderline cases. But I'll take the heat - if there is any - when we get there.

[Paul Jaray]

Is it possible to blur it or cover the part with, for example, a big black dot?

[Ray B.]

Edit: I just went through the roughly 370 pictures I currently have stored for later posting, and there are maybe two that are borderline cases. But I'll take the heat - if there is any - when we get there.

That's what I was saying: why not forget about those 2 instead? 2 out of 370, it's no big deal.

[Ultra]

It is incumbent upon the poster of a puzzle to declare an answer correct. Sometimes, members like to post the links to sites where they have found the answer to a puzzle, in an attempt to offer "proof" that their answer is correct. While this may seem harmless, it has also compromised the puzzle sources of many member who cannot afford to purchase expensive volumes of automotive history.

Some members may notice that the puzzle poster may, from time to time, include a "photo credit" link under a puzzle picture, after the puzzle is solved. This is done when the puzzle picture is clearly copyrighted, or when the source site – often a "Friends of AutoPuzzles" listed site – has granted permission to use their content, in return for a photo credit.

The simple way to avoid this is, do not post links in the puzzles sections of the boards.   That, IMHO, should be the clear and simple rule.   Do not post links in the puzzles sections of AutoPuzzles.   Exception would be "photo credits" and, clearly, credits are only posted by the thread starter and only after a puzzle enters the Solved section of the board.

:huh:   

A careful study of the index page will reveal that this rule has already been clearly implemented.  Only the punishment part of the rule is yet to be finalized.

[Ultra]

- whether he completely crops out the part of the car where such a detail appears. You do it quite often. I'm not so fond of this, but it's a solution.

IMHO, a way to deal with this is for the puzzle originator to be transparent and post in the beginning any alterations that have been done to the photo.  That immediately defuses any objections and makes those one or two puzzles that are questionable get in under the radar.  A.K.A. a simple re-wording of rule one, any and all photo modifications must be stated in the original puzzle in writing.

^-^

[Otto Puzzell]

All good points. Kudo's to Ultra for suggesting I post this question here.

[Allemano]

Is it possible to blur it or cover the part with, for example, a big black dot?

I agree with PJ.
IMHO it hadn't been any problem to remove the scudetto -- but in a visible way! (by blurring or blacken the detail)
If you remove such a siginficant detail without trace only then you go beyond the pale.

[Stephen M]

The gist of rule #1 seems to be that it's OK to remove information from a pic (blur, crop, etc), but NOT OK to ADD false information (red herrings and such). Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I'm fine with rule #2, if that's how people want it, but curious as to what the motivation is? Part of the joy of the puzzles (for me, anyway), is doing detailed digging for more info after it's solved. Links to the creation/history of some obscure car provide hours of entertaining reading, so my first instinct is to share them with all the like-minded folk here.

I can see if someone uncovers a batch a photos in some dark corner of the internet and uses them for a string of puzzles...they'd rightfully not want links to the source until all the associated puzzles are solved. If I stumble across the same dark corner in my search for an answer, is it enough to not post the link, or should I recuse myself from the other associated puzzles as well?

[@re]

IMHO it hadn't been any problem to remove the scudetto -- but in a visible way! (by blurring or blacken the detail)

Problem is, if you're blurring a thing like that, you're telling people that there was something here that was very significant. In the case of both the Alfas I've been talking about, only blurring the scudetto would have made the puzzle a whole lot easier, if not giving away the solution completely.

[Ray B.]

I'm fine with rule #2, if that's how people want it, but curious as to what the motivation is? Part of the joy of the puzzles (for me, anyway), is doing detailed digging for more info after it's solved. Links to the creation/history of some obscure car provide hours of entertaining reading, so my first instinct is to share them with all the like-minded folk here.

I can see if someone uncovers a batch a photos in some dark corner of the internet and uses them for a string of puzzles...they'd rightfully not want links to the source until all the associated puzzles are solved. If I stumble across the same dark corner in my search for an answer, is it enough to not post the link, or should I recuse myself from the other associated puzzles as well?

Of course it's enough not to post the link... Then you can quietly start  to solve all the puzzles that come from this "dark corner" until the guy who posted them starts hating you. It happens all the time.

As for the "joy of digging", let's face it, after a car is identified, if one really tries he can often google his way to the source that would have been revealed by those links. But it's not the same. It's, as you say, "digging".

[Ultra]

let's face it, after a car is identified, if one really tries he can often google his way to the source that would have been revealed by those links.

This is, to me, completely overlooked by many of you.  Links to puzzle sites that might possibly get exposed become less of an issue when one considers that , by posting a puzzle off of a page, the minute it is solved, you, the puzzles poster, have effectively given the page away to anyone who can use Google.  Once a puzzle is solved I, like Stephen M, think people should be free to use that thread as a repository for information about that vehicle, including links.  It adds value to the thread, the website , the users of the site and isn't revealing anything to anyone that a Google entry of the Solved vehicles name wouldn't.  The library of esoteric automobiles only really has meaning if links are allowed in the Solved puzzles section. 

I think that is what makes the most sense for all.

[Ray B.]

I see your point as a creator of this site, but I still strongly agree with Otto's concern of not giving away sources (I should have shut my mouth. Sorry, Otto!  :bag: ).
If we do, it becomes almost impossible to post puzzles that last more than a few days. So all those who do the job will eventually give up.
What I said is that it can be done by googling, but it takes lots of time, there is no guaranteed result, and there is too much to explore for us to find all the sources anyway. So the system keeps on functioning.

[Ultra]

If we do, it becomes almost impossible to post puzzles that last more than a few days. So all those who do the job will eventually give up.

I am having a very hard time accepting this premise.

Part of the joy of the puzzles (for me, anyway), is doing detailed digging for more info after it's solved. Links to the creation/history of some obscure car provide hours of entertaining reading, so my first instinct is to share them with all the like-minded folk here.

'xactly!

Otto, do you think Ray B.s summary is embellished at all?

[Otto Puzzell]

No, I don't think it's embellished.

I, too, get a kick out of searching and searching. Often, I am beaten to the punch by others with more time or other reference materials available, but that's where my puzzle fun comes from.

If info can be shared without stifling the posters who don't own a lot of automotive literature - i.e., giving a link to a site the poster may have stumbled upon after hours and hours searching for another car - I have no objection.

On a related note, I don't think this site can be the library of esoteric automobiles, if it is largely a compilation of cut-and-paste info from other sites, or links to other sites. If  a poster wants to learn what he or she knows, or has learned, why not take a moment to put it in their own words?

[Ultra]

why not take a moment to put it in their own words?

There you have it folks.   No links except Photo Credits in the puzzles sections.  Thanks Otto, for explaining the need for this rule is such a clear and concise manner.

Outside of the puzzle sections, people can write about any car they want, with links.  I won't back down from that.  Inside the puzzle sections things have to be different and I will do my best to make that clear to all at AP.

P.S. We ARE the library of esoteric automobiles.  Thumb through the Solved section and try to describe what you see better than that phrase does.

[@re]

P.S. We ARE the library of esoteric automobiles.

Agree. There is probably no other website that contains such a variety of obscure and relatively unknown cars. A massive feat!

About the Google bit: Google, as all other search engines, works from some basic rules. Some sites more than others seem to escape those rules, and are therefore less likely to pop up on a Google search. Those sites can be valuable sources for puzzle material. It is quite correct to assume that everything on the internet can be found when searching, but everything is not equally easy to find when searching.

[Otto Puzzell]

Note:

Based upon the feedbakc and commentary above, I've added an additional note to rule number two.

If everyone has had there say, and is OK with the modification, I will add the rules at the top of each of the puzzle sections. 

[Ultra]

If everyone has had there say, and is OK with the modification, I will add the rules at the top of each of the puzzle sections. 

Have at it.

[Otto Puzzell]

Puzzles Rulebook

The following rules have been developed so that AutoPuzzles members understand what actions are considered OK, and which are not. Those that are prohibited, as spelled out below, will be dealt with by the admins in the following manner:

First time offense: a written warning within the thread in which the rules infraction occurred

Second offense: A 7-day ban from participation in the puzzles. You will receive an e-mail notification of the banning, and a notice will be posted in the thread in which the rules infraction occurred.

Three or more offenses: The admins of this site will consider a longer temporary ban, or a permanent ban. You will receive an e-mail notification of the banning, and a notice will be posted in the thread in which the rules infraction occurred.

Rules, Part 1: Modification of posted pictures:

The following picture modifications are A-OK, and are considered by consensus to be acceptable.

1.   Change color, or change to black-and-white or sepia tone.
2.   Obscure or delete telltale background elements.
3.   Obscure or delete badges, logos and number plates.

The following picture modifications are not OK, and are considered by consensus to be unacceptable and unsportsmanlike.

1.   Replace design elements from one vehicle with those of another (wheels, grille, etc.)
2.   Photoshop modifications that change the basic configuration of a car (change a coupe to a roadster; make a Tyrelll  P34 a four-wheeled car, etc).
3.   Photoshop modifications that place a vehicle in an incorrect time or place.
4.   Reversing a picture to make an LHD vehicle appear RHD, or vice-versa.


Rules, Part 2: Posting links that compromise the integrity of other puzzles.

It is incumbent upon the poster of a puzzle to declare an answer correct. Sometimes, members like to post the links to sites where they have found the answer to a puzzle, in an attempt to offer "proof" that their answer is correct. While this may seem harmless, it has also compromised the puzzle sources of many member who cannot afford to purchase expensive volumes of automotive history.

Some members may notice that the puzzle poster may, from time to time, include a "photo credit" link under a puzzle picture, after the puzzle is solved. This is done when the puzzle picture is clearly copyrighted, or when the source site – often a "Friends of AutoPuzzles" listed site – has granted permission to use their content, in return for a photo credit.

Note: Links to other sites and sources are welcome in non-puzzle posts and threads, except when such information is then linked to within a solved puzzle.