A point is up for grabs if you can correctly identify this one.
Do you take all these shots from books?
Sometimes I do, but not this one. I took it from a display stand at an exhibition, hence the rather poor quality!
Frazer-Nash
No, not a Frazer-Nash.
Connaught
No, not that either.
Ermini?
No.
Tojeiro?
No.
Allard-Chrysler 2JX?
No.
The Rookies have had a good chew on this one, but can the Experts finish it off?
I have no idea yet, but is it from France?
No.
is it a special built by Reg Philips
Or an Elva?
Or perhaps an HRG Aerodynamic?
rgs atlanta
No to all the above!
Does it have something to do with Armstrong-Siddeley?
Not that I know of.
Was this made in Central/Eastern Europe?
It's European, but from that small, strange island of the coast of France!
Perhaps only the Pros knows..?
Quote from: Djetset on September 04, 2009, 10:22:23 AM
It's European, but from that small, strange island of the coast of France!
Jersey? ;D
I meant the rather larger island just off the coast of Jersey ;)
Quote from: Djetset on September 22, 2009, 09:03:31 AM
I meant the rather larger island just off the coast of Jersey ;)
I think Allan knew that....!
Bristol-engined?
Kieft?
Could it be a british Buckler Ninety (1954-1962) perhaps?
An overdue response. Yes, it is Bristol-powered, and no, it's not a Keift or Buckler.
Lister?
Emery?
Quote from: Djetset on October 28, 2009, 02:33:30 PM
An overdue response. Yes, it is Bristol-powered, and no, it's not a Keift or Buckler.
If you say so, but it doesn't seem to have the bonnet height that goes with a Bristol engine.
I'm giving this one to Pal as he correctly identified it as being Bristol-powered some months back, and he has now spotted that it's a Lister, as this is indeed a Lister-Bristol. I'll provide more details of the year, etc., when I get home at the end of this week.
Quote from: Djetset on May 11, 2010, 09:14:57 AM
I'm giving this one to Pal as he correctly identified it as being Bristol-powered some months back, and he has now spotted that it's a Lister, as this is indeed a Lister-Bristol. I'll provide more details of the year, etc., when I get hom at the end of this week.
As I said it doesn't look tall enough for a Bristol engine, and I don't remember any Lister having a body with wing lines or headlamps like that.
(http://www.dlg.speedfreaks.org/archive/cars/lister/autos/lister-mg_sport_1954.jpg)
BHL1 Lister-MG
(http://www.firstgearcollector.com/lister%20bristol.jpg)
Model of MVE 303 when it was still Bristol-powered.
However there were a number of odd engines fitted and doubtless odd bodies
:-\ Sorry I was not paying full attention earlier, and I've now realised that I've made a major cock-up here, as it is not a Lister-Bristol, but rather something quite close, though not a Lister (although it is still Bristol-powered).
Is it an AC then?
tojero bristol
Not an AC nor Tojero.
I was beginning to think we had another case of "when in doubt it's a Lister" like http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11593.0
Hmm, that age-old Lister problem! ;)
Bristol-powered; the obvious answer is a Cooper-Bristol such as Mucky Pup
No, it's not 'Mucky Pup' I'm afraid.
Bristol Barb?
One-off sports racer with Cooper chassis, Bristol engine and a Rochdale body.
Sadly not! ;D
Okay - it is very similar to the Bristol Barb but the (damaged) front and position of the headlights didn't really match up.
I'll have another try when I've done some more research..........fingers crossed!
Keep on the good hunt and you'll get there.
Is it a Cooper-Bristol?
I have three possibles left - first the 1953 LMC Bristol raced by Berwyn Baxter?
No, not Baxter's LMC Bristol. One down, two to go...
Warrior-Bristol ?
No, not a Warrior. We'll soon be running out of Bristol-engined cars of the period, so I think this one will be solved quite soon. The race is on!
Maybe E.F.Scott's Bristol Special?
:doh: Sorry, that was American...
Wingfield Bristol 1957?
No, not the Wingfield. The choice thins!
Could it be an Arnolt-Bristol?
Don't think anyone has tried that one yet!
Quote from: Carnut on May 21, 2010, 05:42:27 AM
Could it be an Arnolt-Bristol?
Don't think anyone has tried that one yet!
But of course that wouldn't be British so how about Lotus-Bristol? There were some!
The only other Bristol-engined car I could find mentioned is Ron Willis's BMW-Bristol
Well I must admit that I'm running out of suggestions. There are some specials that I have never seen a photo of and don't know which engine they were running.
The body is similar to a Kieft-Bristol with a revised nose. However you have already stated that it isn't a Kieft.
A wild guess is that it may be the Jackal from 1950 of J. McCubbin that ran an engine of 1976cc (close to the Bristol 1971cc).
I haven't seen an illustration of this car so I may be completely wrong!
This one is proving much trickier than I thought! All of the above are good answers, but sadly none of them are the right one. Sorry!
Well, maybe it would be easier to find it knowing the year? Could it be a 1952 something?
Is it a hybrid - a car not normally Bristol-powered fitted with a Bristol engine?
Not 100% certain of the year Faksta, but I think it is the early 1960s. It is certainly after 1952 as there is a Ford Consul II (204E) parked in the background on this photo, and this model wasn't launched until 1956.
As for the car, I believe this body also existing without a Bristol engine. Hope this helps.
Oh..this didn't look sixties to me...
You could be right in that the car was built in the 1950s.
Quote from: Djetset on May 24, 2010, 06:27:46 PM
Not 100% certain of the year Faksta, but I think it is the early 1960s. It is certainly after 1952 as there is a Ford Consul II (204E) parked in the background on this photo, and this model wasn't launched until 1956.
As for the car, I believe this body also existing without a Bristol engine. Hope this helps.
All the presence of the Consul confirms is the earliest date of the
photo.
OK, I'm feeling generous. I've done a bit more research and established that this car seems to have first appeared in 1956/7. I hope this will prove helpful and help get this Puzzle solved before its first birthday. ;)
That narrows the search :)
What about Alex Chambers' FMC - Bristol?
No, not that one!
You said there was another version of the car.
So maybe it is a Halton? I'm not sure what engine it had, but it was bigger than 1.5-liter, I guess. And there has also been the one with Ford engine (the Halton-Buckler).
No, sorry but not a Halton.
What a hard nut it appears to be!
BTW I've found a picture of Halton with some info, and it was CLimax powered...
Eh..was D-Type right about the fact it has Cooper chassis? I have now re-read the whole thread, and didn't understand whether the answer is yes or no - I think there was no answer in fact :P
To the best of my (very limited) knowledge on this one, I don't believe it has a Cooper chassis but I'm not 101% certain.
You also mentioned it has a strong relation to Lister-Bristols. Was it a technical relation, I mean the chassis or something.. I understand the engine was the same, of course :D
Yes the strong relationship was the Bristol engine common to both cars.
From the side it looks rather close to the HAR Special, which it is not. It was Daimler powered and has a completely different front end now when restored. But, what is more important, HAR would be a repost here ;D
Still maybe there is some relation between them? Don't call me mad, but could this be a modified Swallow Doretti body?
Strange you mention the H.A.R. Special as I was at the Brooklands Museum last weekend looking at the very car, and took some photos to put up as a potential puzzle, only to do a search and discover another puzzler had got there before me!
Anyway, nothing to do with the H.A.R. that I know of, nor a Swallow Doretti.
I have just stumbled upon the HAR Special picture in the web again, that's why I remembered it.
My, what could this be? No single car fits all the criteria above among those I know or could find searching.
By the way, I get it that it is a picture from hillclimb? If you have an info, is it Shelsley Walsh? I don't know hillclimb venues visually.
As you can see from the poor quality of the image, I took the photo of a photo that was pinned to a display board for a car club at a historic race meeting in England last year.
I had a long converation with a few guys on the car club stand about this mystery car as two of them were involved with it racing in the early 1960s, and have subsequently found some limited information on the internet to verify our discussions. I believe the car is competing at the Wiscombe hillclimb in the photograph.
Pity I don't have this then :(
Me too! From previous posts I've never really given a date as to when this car was built, which seems to be c.1953-54, although the photo was supposedly taken in the very early 1960s.
I'm done for now :faint: I think I'll see it in my dreams tonight, doubt it will introduce itself, though...
I hope you don't see this one in you dreams Faksta, because it might give you nightmares! Keep up the good fight..!
Any connection with Chapman - Mercury, which is still being driven at hillclimbs?
(To be honest, they don't look similar enough, but...)
Not that I know of.
I've found another Bristol- or BMW - engined car.
The A.W.E.?
I know the A.W.E. Bristol, and I know that this is not it, sadly!
Could this be a Halseylec?
No, not that.
Quote from: D-type on May 20, 2010, 03:47:47 PM
Is it a Cooper-Bristol?
I thought Cooper had been discounted but you don't seem to have actually answered this question Djetset!
Is it?
I was also going to suggest a Healey...
Sorry, but neither of those.
A wild shot in the dark as I have never seen a photo of this car and don't know if it has a Bristol engine
- BBS of H.M. Barron? (my reasoning is that BBS may stand for Barron Bristol Special or Sports)
I know the car you mean, although I don't recall seeing a photo of it either. Sadly though, it is not that one.
Could this car be a Fairthorpe?
Thanks for bringing this one back to life, but sadly it is not a Fairthorpe.
Quote from: Carnut on May 10, 2010, 06:37:41 PM
Emery?
You never actually answered this question Djetset?
Sorry Carnut; missed that one, but no, it's not an Emery.
Nothing to do with Tom Killeen I suppose?
Not that I know of.
Has anyone tried Healey yet?
I don't think they have, but it's not one of his creations anyway!
Correction, just checking back, you suggested Healey some time back Carnut.
Are there any names not mentioned in this thread yet? ;D
You've got me worried now Faksta, so I am just going to read through the frive pages again to make sure I haven't missed it! Astonishingly though I still think the correct name has not been mentioned!
ERA?
Nope!
I don't remember whether I have already asked that, but did the guys build any other cars?
Have we tried HWM?
Carnut; not an HWM.
Faksta; yes this person did build others cars.
Of a similar type? I mean, one-off sportscars?
He built a small number of sportscars of various types, but I believe this was the only one with a Bristol engine.
Some similarities with my recently solved Jehu-Riley, so I may as well ask if John Horridge was involved?
No, not to my knowledge.
I think Lester has never had Bristol engined car, but worth a try, I believe. So, maybe a Lester?
At last, we finally got there! Bravo Faksta.
Lester was of course far better known for his MG-based sportscars, but he did build one Bristol-powered car;this one. As you have tried so hard on this puzzle, and it has taken so long to solve, I am happy to now award you two points. Well done, and now you will be able to sleep at night! ;D
Some parts of the car still exist today, owned by a gentlemen in the Gilbern Club. He hopes to fully restore the car one day soon.
BTW: in a momentary lapse of concerntration, maybe you can now see why I stupidly said yes to Pal N when he suggested Lister!!
Well done Faksta!
Now we can all sleep peacefully at nights again.
Does anyone have a better image of this Lester-Bristol?
I have the Gilbern chap's contact details somewhere, so I will get in touch to see if he has any other images and more details about the car. Watch this space...
Finally! :hyper:
And thanks for an extra point ;)
Great work, faksta!
I have just found a mentioning of seemingly the same car - 1957 SCCA race at Cumberland, driven by John Norwood in FMod class. Seems the car has been imported to the USA and then brought back to UK, as the photo is from a British hillclimb, as you have said. Or, maybe, there was another one?
Probably, though, it is a typo, as the next race he drove a Lister-Bristol...
Once again, I find it hard to accept that the answer is in fact correct, and in this case that's based on memory for several things (therefore unreliable) such as not remembering Harry Lester ever making a Bristol-engined car. In another place we had a long discussion on a Riley-engined Lester which undoubtedly did exist, but we had no evidence that it had been built with a Riley engine. If this one is indeed a Bristol-engined Lester, maybe it was not built as one - if there is a known registration number, more may be revealed of course.
I also think 1960 is a bit late for any Lester: about 1955 at the latest, I'd say.
Without seeing this car or a better photo of it I still say (as I did in a very early post (no 35 over a year ago)) that its bonnet doesn't seem tall enough to house a Bristol engine.
The other bit from memory is that I don't recall a Lester with a front body looking like this - nor do I recall a proprietory body like this either. This is more the Lester I remember:
(http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccse/images1/goodw9905x.jpg)
Although I'm pleased to see that a conclusion has been achieved with this puzzle I still share some misgivings about its true identity.
On reading through the Lester history (they were active between 1949 and 1955 by the way), there is no mention of a Bristol-engined car and none with this style of bodywork.
Barratt asked if there was any connection to his Jehu-Riley built by John Horridge.
What I can tell you is that John Horridge was racing a Lister-Bristol in 1957 with a non-standard body.
I have seen a photo of this car - basically similar but the bonnet and front grille are different.
Just a thought - the front end could have been replaced following an accident.
Anyway I'll continue my research but I think the only way to put this one to rest is for the present owner to come up with some photographic evidence and details of registration number.
That's what AutoPuzzles is all about isn't it?
That or to find entry lists for a number of Wiscombe Park events (say, 1955-1961) and look for car #29.
Oh, the fact that the Wiscombe Park hillclimb seems to be launched in 1958 makes it easier...
Unfortunately I don't have the entry lists as far back as that
If Djetset agrees this picture to be spread a little, we could ask at one very well known forum...
MJW - That's an interesting point, horridge owned at least TWO Lister-Bristols, the earlier car was reg. no. DEN 275 and originally had a 1.5 Riley engine like the Jehu. It was written off in 1957, and it had a Rochdale C-type body - The rear quarters of the puzzle car suggest that it's also a C-type shell with a modified nose....
Slightly off-topic, but interesting nonetheless
The photo I saw of the John Horridge Lister-Bristol was registered DEN 275 - the earlier car with the Rochdale C-Type body.
If necessary I can scan it but I'm not sure that it's relevant here.
To Faksta's point; I am very happy for you to spread this photo around on other forums to help discover more about the car.
To Allan's point; 'Opinionated but sometimes wrong' to use your own strapline. As the owner of two Bristols, this car really caught my eye at the 2009 Silverstone Classic, and I spoke at length about the machine to the Gilbern chap that knows the car and confirmed that it has a Bristol engine. As an active member of the Bristol Owners Club, I have seen other Bristol-powered specials at Club events with an even lower bonnet (hood) line than this Lester. I may put some of these up as puzzles in the future. I do accept the point that this car may be earlier than 1960 though, hence the 'circa' remark.
One of my current puzzles also reflects this aspect!
Finally this is solved...
Upcoming Rare Car of the Week!
What I can't find is where someone has pointed out that the photo is at Shelsley Walsh, not Wiscombe - must be on the thread Faksta has started in the other place.
See the Turner photo I posted in another thread here which is at much the same place.
It was indeed on that other forum :nod: