Author Topic: SOLVED: FW #291 Perl L600, 1933/34  (Read 1141 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2022, 09:45:03 PM »
Is this the "Wien" joint venture from 1946 between ÖAF, Gräf & Stift, and Saurer?  Apparently they planned a similar bus.

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2022, 04:36:53 PM »
Is the chassis from a company normally associated with trucks and buses?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2022, 02:59:44 AM »
Is this the "Wien" joint venture from 1946 between ÖAF, Gräf & Stift, and Saurer?  Apparently they planned a similar bus.
No
Is the chassis from a company normally associated with trucks and buses?
Not only, the built usual passenger cars too

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2022, 09:25:51 AM »
Puch? I'm running out of Austrian companies.

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2022, 05:54:19 PM »
Not Puch

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2022, 06:17:46 PM »
Fross-Büssing?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2022, 04:19:02 PM »
No

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2022, 04:34:49 PM »
Perl?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2022, 02:48:59 AM »
Yes, you have it! LOCKED for you

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2022, 10:59:37 AM »
OK, in 1935 Perl entered a joint venture with Gräf und Stift to build buses.  This does not look like a pre-1935 G & S bus at all.  Either Perl was way ahead of their time or the attribution to Perl (not Perl Auhof, that was post-war) is incorrect.  The grille does look like 1938-39 G & S _cars._, so there might have been some parts sharing if this is indeed Perl.

Now.  On a well-known transport site, I saw this photo labeled "1939 ÖAF Bus 3ton."  I found it on another site labeled "Austro-Fiat HRM 6" (which you might remember was one of my guesses.) We know that G & S was taken over by ÖAF in 1971 but that's not pertinent to this puzzle. I am dubious about this late pre-war bus being either Perl or G & S.  I found this Austro-Fiat brochure from 1937 on an auction site and this looks quite clearly like the puzzle bus. (except for the grille vent doors, which are shown on A-F trucks in the same brochure.). Now, if you take the mystery ÖAF or Austro-Fiat picture and flip it, it looks very much like the puzzle bus.  Grille, vents, wheels, spare wheel, cloth roof, etc.  So if this is indeed a Perl, it has a LOT of A-F parts.  There may be some MAN parts too, as MAN had a large share of ÖAF after the Anschluss, and there was almost certainly a diesel engine licensed from MAN.

Edit: the picture is from the 2 & 2-1/2 ton "SRM" brochure.  There is a 3 & 3-1/2 ton "HRM" brochure which shows a larger bus and vent doors on the hood but the SRM looks more like the puzzle bus.  I suspect the 21-passenger body could be put on either chassis.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 11:21:10 AM by marmer »

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2022, 04:42:12 PM »
Thanks for the lesson. I have all the ever published ÖAF- and G&S books. I am very familiar with the two companies history. Sorry, by all your doubts, this is a Perl bus. Do you want going on searching for type and year, or should I open this puzzle for all again?

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2022, 09:08:40 PM »
Is that books like _Ein Wiener Automobilwerk im Wandel der Zeit_?  Is this one of the Liesing-Omnibusse? I'm sorry, but I'm not finding anything about Perl buses that late, unless the A-F ones were badge engineered, or used Perl coachwork, or the puzzle bus was a super-early postwar Perl Auhof.  Maybe all the bus builders got their radiator shells and wheels and hoods from the same supplier.  May I have 24 more hours?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2022, 04:24:11 AM »
For sure! Be patient, I am sure you will find the solution

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2022, 12:50:47 PM »
Was this bus built by Ing. Gustav Rudolf Perl after 1935 in his Überland Kfzwerkstätten- undBetriebsgesellschaft mbH in Breitensee?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2022, 04:58:17 PM »
No

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2022, 06:20:09 PM »
Perl L600?

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2022, 03:36:15 AM »
Exactly! I felt sure, you will find it. Please offer me a year next to 1935..

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2022, 11:28:49 AM »
1934, before the G&S merger?  Here's a Perl L600 used by Lackner Reisen in 1929, perhaps they modernized it a lot with the body.


Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: FW #291
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2022, 11:47:24 AM »
It is a Perl L600 from 1933-34. The well earned point is yours!

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: SOLVED: FW #291 Perl L600, 1933/34
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2022, 11:55:28 AM »
To spread all your doubts, here a detail picture, which confirms brand and type

Offline marmer

  • Expert
  • Feature Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 2028
  • Country: us
  • Puzzle Points 129
  • AutoPuzzles
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: SOLVED: FW #291 Perl L600, 1933/34
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2022, 12:08:14 PM »
Thanks!  Wow, that is a really pretty bus.  Similar, but more elegant than the Austro-Fiat.

Offline fromwien

  • Master
  • *
  • Posts: 12488
  • Country: at
  • Puzzle Points 844
  • Name That Car!
  • YearsYearsYearsYearsYearsYears
Re: SOLVED: FW #291 Perl L600, 1933/34
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2022, 03:57:01 PM »
Yes, I agree with you. Very pretty and ahaed of its time