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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM

Title: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM
I've got some cars I found around in some magazines or in some websites.
There was no info with the pics or I did not had the time to look for more.
I realized that there is a bunch of people here who is surprisingly discovering them one by one...
Why don't let them find some more?
Many points await you...but it won't be easy.
I know some details for some of these vehicles.

Solutions (and clues):

1-SOLVED - 1919 Electricar BY Armand Couaillet Wendax x2
2-SOLVED - Biblex 1925, Wendax
3- CLUES: french, 30s.
4- SOLVED - Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad Wendax
5- SOLVED - Warner Bros. Special Tom_I & Wendax
6- SOLVED - Wijchman, built bij Wijchman from Zonhoven Limo
7- SOLVED - Stimson Honda - Quiller
8- SOLVED - 1933 Stutz Pak-Age-Kar Woodinsight
9- SOLVED - 1947 Brush Electrical wagonette  Wendax
10- SOLVED - 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 by Erdmann & Rossi Wendax
11- SOLVED - Monsieur Mathevet's Panhard Wendax
12- SOLVED - VW-1500 Special by Petterson, 1967 Dzima1985?
13- SOLVED - DFP NSU 1972 dzima1985
14- SOLVED - Renault Alpine A 310 Molinari Gr. 4 Wendax
15-SOLVED - Jaguar XKE Luciano Sarma - Oguerrerob
16-SOLVED - Six-whheled Opel Manta for the German movie "Manta - Der Film" Wendax

Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:50 AM
and
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Quiller on March 08, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
I've got a feeling that (7) is a Barry Stimson creation (possibly on Honda Acty)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:45:19 AM
#4 is Hexe with BMW engine. I'll have to look up more details tonight.

#10 is a 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 V with body by Erdmann & Rossi. It was not allowed to carry the Mercedes star, so it has a Erdmann & Rossi emblem on the radiator.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:49:49 AM
#16 Six-whheled Opel Manta with two steered front axles 13" BBS wheels, 15" BBS wheels at the rear axle, built for the German movie "Manta - Der Film"
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:53:43 AM
Quote from: Quiller on March 08, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
I've got a feeling that (7) is a Barry Stimson creation (possibly on Honda Acty)
My source reports that is an Honda modified by a British Design consultant...and I think I can read the name, now!
Is this the Honda Open 4, then?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 09:03:17 AM
#11 is a Panhard (PL17?) rebodied around 1960 by the uncle of a Bernard who posted quite a lot of pics of this car. The car was last seen around 1984 as a wreck in Ecrosne.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on March 08, 2011, 09:08:36 AM
2. Tricycle aluminum body
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 09:19:01 AM
#14 looks like a rebodied Renault Alpine A 310 V6, Swiss licence plate, on a French supermarket car park
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:45:19 AM
#4 is Hexe with BMW engine. I'll have to look up more details tonight.

#10 is a 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 V with body by Erdmann & Rossi. It was not allowed to carry the Mercedes star, so it has a Erdmann & Rossi emblem on the radiator.
#4 I'll wait.  ;)
#10 I knew it seemed familiar...is there a front view of this car?
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 09:03:17 AM
#11 is a Panhard (PL17?) rebodied around 1960 by the uncle of a Bernard who posted quite a lot of pics of this car. The car was last seen around 1984 as a wreck in Ecrosne.
That is what I have too...are there any updates? 'Bernard's uncle' is not enough...
Quote from: Oguerrerob on March 08, 2011, 09:08:36 AM
2. Tricycle aluminum body
Again I'd like to know more...
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:49:49 AM
#16 Six-whheled Opel Manta with two steered front axles 13" BBS wheels, 15" BBS wheels at the rear axle, built for the German movie "Manta - Der Film"
Good! You know who made it?
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 09:19:01 AM
#14 looks like a rebodied Renault Alpine A 310 V6, Swiss licence plate, on a French supermarket car park
I can add a back view.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on March 08, 2011, 11:21:57 AM
No. 6 is a belgian car, i can look it up tonight for the name of the maker.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: Limo on March 08, 2011, 11:21:57 AM
No. 6 is a belgian car, i can look it up tonight for the name of the maker.
Yes! Single-cylinder air-cooled motorcycle engine...Locked for you!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:25:07 AM
#2 is the Biblex from 1925, a German threewheeler one-off, built in Thuringia. The engine is unknown.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on March 08, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
No.12 is a car made in Sweden, it is based on a Volkswagen beetle, it was for sale in Germany, i tried to figure out who build it. I have pictures of the papers, the papers do not mention a name, only that it's made from fibreglass.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
#4 is the Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad. It was built by engineer Erwin Wesnigk from Berlin from 1922 to 1926. Seven cars were built. The body panels were attached to a tubular aluminum frame. The engine was a single-cylinder 6 hp BMW engine, later ones had a single-cylinder 10 hp Kühne engine. The car weighed 195 kg and reached 70 km/h. I couldn't find the "Hexe" (witch) name right now. I know it is mentioned in other books. I will have a look next week-end.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:47:09 AM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:49:49 AM
#16 Six-whheled Opel Manta with two steered front axles 13" BBS wheels, 15" BBS wheels at the rear axle, built for the German movie "Manta - Der Film"

It seems that at least two six-wheeled Mantas have been built, but since they were just built for the movie and not for sale, I don't know who did the modification.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:45:19 AM
#10 is a 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 V with body by Erdmann & Rossi. It was not allowed to carry the Mercedes star, so it has a Erdmann & Rossi emblem on the radiator.

To be correct, it is just a 170, not a 170V.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:55:38 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM
2-Biblex 1925, locked for Wendax for confirmation

You can find the confirmation here:  ;D
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=15850.0
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on March 08, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
15. Jaguar XKE Luciano Sarma. Boss 429 engine Ford
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: Limo on March 08, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
No.12 is a car made in Sweden, it is based on a Volkswagen beetle, it was for sale in Germany, i tried to figure out who build it. I have pictures of the papers, the papers do not mention a name, only that it's made from fibreglass.
It's locked for you untill your next reply about this car.
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
#4 is the Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad. It was built by engineer Erwin Wesnigk from Berlin from 1922 to 1926. Seven cars were built. The body panels were attached to a tubular aluminum frame. The engine was a single-cylinder 6 hp BMW engine, later ones had a single-cylinder 10 hp Kühne engine. The car weighed 195 kg and reached 70 km/h. I couldn't find the "Hexe" (witch) name right now. I know it is mentioned in other books. I will have a look next week-end.
It's not an Hexe, then? Same source?
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 08:45:19 AM
#10 is a 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 V with body by Erdmann & Rossi. It was not allowed to carry the Mercedes star, so it has a Erdmann & Rossi emblem on the radiator.
To be correct, it is just a 170, not a 170V.
I'll fix it...
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:55:38 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM
2-Biblex 1925, locked for Wendax for confirmation

You can find the confirmation here:  ;D
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=15850.0
If you say that's your source, your word is more than enough.
Quote from: Oguerrerob on March 08, 2011, 11:58:31 AM
15. Jaguar XKE Luciano Sarma. Boss 429 engine Ford
Very good!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
#4 is the Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad. It was built by engineer Erwin Wesnigk from Berlin from 1922 to 1926. Seven cars were built. The body panels were attached to a tubular aluminum frame. The engine was a single-cylinder 6 hp BMW engine, later ones had a single-cylinder 10 hp Kühne engine. The car weighed 195 kg and reached 70 km/h. I couldn't find the "Hexe" (witch) name right now. I know it is mentioned in other books. I will have a look next week-end.
It's not an Hexe, then? Same source?

Forget the Hexe right now. The Wesnigk data come from the Metternich book as well. If I find a further name, I'll tell you. For the moment I think that my memory played a trick on me with "Hexe".
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 01:02:09 PM
Is #9 a Morrison D1?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on March 08, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
About #12:
Your right answer is maybe Vokaro.
In fact it is still an unkwown swedish kitcar, built in 1967.
The seller said that he would call it a Vokaro when he did not succeed to find the name of the real builder because he needed a name to get german papers and licenseplates for the car...
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: woodinsight on March 09, 2011, 02:41:36 AM
#8 - Pak-Age-Kar?
#9 - Morrison Electricar?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 09, 2011, 02:58:50 AM
woodinsight is right with #8. It is the 1933 Stutz Pak-Age-Kar.

Came a few minutes too late  ;)

(But my Morrison guess on #9 was first  ;D )
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 09, 2011, 03:53:17 AM
You are incredible!
I had these pics for years and in 1 days you find half of them!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Carnut on March 09, 2011, 04:27:31 AM
Quote from: Limo on March 08, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
About #12:
Your right answer is maybe Vokaro.
In fact it is still an unkwown swedish kitcar, built in 1967.
The seller said that he would call it a Vokaro when he did not succeed to find the name of the real builder because he needed a name to get german papers and licenseplates for the car...


Is it related to this car at all?:

www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13678.0

Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 09, 2011, 07:26:10 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM
11- CLUES: Panhard rebodied around 1960 by the uncle of a Bernard...who was the builder ?

The car was built by Monsieur Mathevet, the village is Ecrosnes and the base car was a 1950 Panhard X. Monsieur Mathevet was artist and teacher at the École des beaux-arts in Paris.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 09, 2011, 08:24:32 AM
#9 is the 1947 Brush Electrical wagonette.

Thanks for the picture, Hugo  :D
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Arunas on March 10, 2011, 07:49:42 AM
Is #6 still unsolved and locked?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Quiller on March 10, 2011, 07:54:54 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 08:53:43 AM
Quote from: Quiller on March 08, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
I've got a feeling that (7) is a Barry Stimson creation (possibly on Honda Acty)
My source reports that is an Honda modified by a British Design consultant...and I think I can read the name, now!
Is this the Honda Open 4, then?

Yes, I strongly suspect this is the Open 4 as mentioned on Stimson's website
I have seen other photos but they were back in the early 1980s...
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Quiller on March 10, 2011, 07:58:08 AM
I don't know what 14 is, but here's a rear view:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 10, 2011, 04:00:30 PM
Sorry for being late.

Quote from: Limo on March 08, 2011, 06:22:52 PM
About #12:
Your right answer is maybe Vokaro.
In fact it is still an unkwown swedish kitcar, built in 1967.
The seller said that he would call it a Vokaro when he did not succeed to find the name of the real builder because he needed a name to get german papers and licenseplates for the car...
Ok, I'll unlock it and see if there will be some more info, otherwise it's your point.
Quote from: woodinsight on March 09, 2011, 02:41:36 AM
#8 - Pak-Age-Kar?
#9 - Morrison Electricar?
#8 is correct (thank you Wendax!)
Quote from: Wendax on March 09, 2011, 07:26:10 AM
The car was built by Monsieur Mathevet, the village is Ecrosnes and the base car was a 1950 Panhard X. Monsieur Mathevet was artist and teacher at the École des beaux-arts in Paris.
That's impressive. Can you tell me the source? (via PM, if you prefer)
Quote from: Wendax on March 09, 2011, 08:24:32 AM
#9 is the 1947 Brush Electrical wagonette.
Perfect!
Quote from: Arunas on March 10, 2011, 07:49:42 AM
Is #6 still unsolved and locked?
Still unsolved and locked.
Limo, let me know if you are stuck and I can unlock it. (I will, eventually)

Thank you Quiller, I was going to post it later.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on March 11, 2011, 11:21:38 AM
Okay, unlock me, because i can't find the small A5 publication with the Belgian DIY car anymore and i don't know the builder of the swedish volkswagen kitcar either... sorry.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 11, 2011, 12:09:35 PM
Open to all!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 11, 2011, 01:04:40 PM
more:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 12, 2011, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 12:20:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2011, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: Wendax on March 08, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
#4 is the Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad. It was built by engineer Erwin Wesnigk from Berlin from 1922 to 1926. Seven cars were built. The body panels were attached to a tubular aluminum frame. The engine was a single-cylinder 6 hp BMW engine, later ones had a single-cylinder 10 hp Kühne engine. The car weighed 195 kg and reached 70 km/h. I couldn't find the "Hexe" (witch) name right now. I know it is mentioned in other books. I will have a look next week-end.
It's not an Hexe, then? Same source?

Forget the Hexe right now. The Wesnigk data come from the Metternich book as well. If I find a further name, I'll tell you. For the moment I think that my memory played a trick on me with "Hexe".

Hexe was definitely wrong, but the Wesnigk had a (nick)name. It was called Maikäfer (cockchafer).
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on March 21, 2011, 12:48:52 PM
5. I've found the same picture tagged as Chain Drive Packard
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 21, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
I doubt it's a Packard but...locked for you for further details (or a proof for your ID)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on March 21, 2011, 03:34:44 PM
That's what I have. If you Google Chain Drive Packard for Twin6. The first picture you'll get is this one. 
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 22, 2011, 07:03:28 AM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on March 21, 2011, 03:34:44 PM
That's what I have. If you Google Chain Drive Packard for Twin6. The first picture you'll get is this one. 
I'm afraid it's not enough...
@Wendax, the Mercedes Benz by Erdman and Rossi should be from 1933, because my pic cames from a magazine of that year.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on March 22, 2011, 07:25:07 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 22, 2011, 07:03:28 AM
@Wendax, the Mercedes Benz by Erdman and Rossi should be from 1933, because my pic cames from a magazine of that year.
Yes, must be 1933.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 18, 2011, 07:47:02 AM
What about the missing ones?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Allemano on April 19, 2011, 05:55:54 AM
#12: I guess it's written in the marked area. Unfortunatly the pic is too small, again.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 19, 2011, 06:23:45 AM
Not really sure, but it just looks like "SPECIAL" to me.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Allemano on April 19, 2011, 06:38:09 AM
After a few tries in Photoshop I'm proud to say that there is definetly "SPECIAL" written.  >:(

At least I have a year: 1967. And that it is VW Type 1 based... What I have found so far suggests that it is German not Swedish.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 19, 2011, 08:21:26 AM
The yellow rear side reflectors say "Jäg ar inte tysk!" (Swedish for "I'm not German"). And the car was photographed in Northern Germany, not a long way for an import.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Allemano on April 19, 2011, 08:42:57 AM
Aha...
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Tom_I on April 21, 2011, 08:08:35 AM
Here's another picture with what looks to be #5 in it, but there's very little information.

The caption reads "Big car racing King Ralph DePalma poses behind the wheel of a miniature Packard Twin Six racer. This is in the Los Angeles area in 1924."

I don't know what the car actually is, but the badge on the radiator, visible in the puzzle picture, does indeed say "Twin Six". The bonnet is painted with "Warner Bros Special", again as in the puzzle pic. The car is obviously registered for road use, but that's all the information there is.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 21, 2011, 08:54:24 AM
Bad news regarding #12: the current owner himself is still looking for a correct identification in order to get some German licence plates. Some more pictures:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 29, 2011, 03:56:22 AM
I found out who the little man next to #5 is. It is Davey Lee, a child actor famous in the early 1930s, lounging against his own miniature car.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Otto Puzzell on April 29, 2011, 05:24:52 AM
Quote from: Wendax on April 29, 2011, 03:56:22 AM
I found out who the little man next to #5 is. It is Davey Lee, a child actor famous in the early 1930s, lounging against his own miniature car.

You mean this one?

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11316.msg92262#msg92262
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 29, 2011, 05:55:24 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on April 29, 2011, 05:24:52 AM
Quote from: Wendax on April 29, 2011, 03:56:22 AM
I found out who the little man next to #5 is. It is Davey Lee, a child actor famous in the early 1930s, lounging against his own miniature car.

You mean this one?

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=11316.msg92262#msg92262

:D :D :D
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 29, 2011, 07:56:07 AM
I have listed 5 different makers from the States named "Warner" but none of them can be the maker of this one.
I'll award a 2nd point to any further detail about the "Warner Special".
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 29, 2011, 08:10:47 AM
The Warner Bros. name on the car refers to the movie company where Davey Lee was under contract, not to the maker of the car.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Tom_I on April 29, 2011, 03:21:17 PM
Here's another shot of the same car - it still doesn't help in identifying it, though.

Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: DeAutogids on May 04, 2011, 08:08:14 AM
Does #6 have anything to do with Altona?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 04, 2011, 08:31:18 AM
I have no idea...
I'll award the points and move it to the Black Hole soon...
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: DeAutogids on May 04, 2011, 08:33:02 AM
from the 1950's?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on May 20, 2011, 10:38:42 AM
12. I've found same info but they talked about "Raul Thibaut told me that in the early 60s a customer took a naked body towards sweden...to be built on a Volvo chassis. It was called a volvo Carina"
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on May 30, 2011, 09:37:16 AM
Finally found a front shot of #10:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 14, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: Wendax on May 30, 2011, 09:37:16 AM
Finally found a front shot of #10:
Cool!
Black hole?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 16, 2011, 09:33:26 AM
Re #3:

Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 24, 2011, 06:13:28 PM
That's what I have too!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Allemano on July 25, 2011, 02:56:31 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on July 24, 2011, 06:13:28 PM
That's what I have too!  :thumbsup:
He's back! (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/0073.gif)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on July 31, 2011, 04:40:56 PM
I just happened to find out that #10 was an AutoPuzzle already, just invisible for a search because of a misspelt Erdmann & Rossi:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=14150.0
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: barrett on August 01, 2011, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: Wendax on July 31, 2011, 04:40:56 PM
I just happened to find out that #10 was an AutoPuzzle already, just invisible for a search because of a misspelt Erdmann & Rossi:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=14150.0

:censored:

My fault, I'll amend that right away!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on August 02, 2011, 07:28:15 AM
A rear view of #15:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on August 28, 2011, 12:22:08 AM
1. Tricycle électrique au Bois de Boulogne 1923
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on August 28, 2011, 01:21:11 AM
12. Vokaro VW Type 1 Kit Car 1967
13. Prototype with engine TTS NSU Printz 1300 1972
14. Iso Rivolta S4 Modified
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 28, 2011, 09:35:59 AM
Quote1. Tricycle électrique au Bois de Boulogne 1923
That is what I have too, a (probably) French electric tricycle from 1923...but what about the builder?
Quote12. Vokaro VW Type 1 Kit Car 1967
13. Prototype with engine TTS NSU Printz 1300 1972
14. Iso Rivolta S4 Modified

12- Is there a reliable source?
13- Interesting! Locked for you.
14. ???
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on August 28, 2011, 10:07:01 AM
13. According to my source this the NSU engine. That' all I've found so far.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on August 28, 2011, 10:12:27 AM
14. I'm revisiting my source and its reliability
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on August 28, 2011, 10:23:41 AM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on August 28, 2011, 10:07:01 AM
13. According to my source this the NSU engine. That' all I've found so far.
That surely is a NSU engine. If it is a 1300 cc engine, it must be a bored out NSU TT engine and not a TTS engine, the later one just having a displacement of 998 cc in order to stay within the 1-litre-class. The NSU TT had a 1200 cc engine that was often increased to 1300 cc by many tuners. The early TT were called Prinz TT (not Printz).
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 05, 2011, 09:19:09 AM
To sum up:

1- CLUES: french, electric, 3-wheeler.
2-SOLVED - Biblex 1925, Wendax
3- CLUES: french, 30s.
4- SOLVED - Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad Wendax
5- CLUES: American, still around.
6- CLUES: belgian , single-cylinder air-cooled motorcycle engine
7- SOLVED - Stimson Honda Open4 - Quiller
8- SOLVED - 1933 Stutz Pak-Age-Kar Woodinsight
9- SOLVED - 1947 Brush Electrical wagonette  Wendax
10- SOLVED - 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 by Erdmann & Rossi Wendax
11- SOLVED - Monsieur Mathevet's Panhard Wendax
12- CLUES: VW Type 1 Kit Car 1967 swedish fibreglass sport car (Vokaro?)
13- CLUES: NSU engine
14- CLUES: swiss licence plate
15-SOLVED - Jaguar XKE Luciano Sarma - Oguerrerob
16-SOLVED - Six-whheled Opel Manta for the German movie "Manta - Der Film" Wendax

I'll award the points to:
Oguerrerob - 1 point
Quiller - 1 point
Wendax - 6 points
Woodinsight - 1 point

2 points for each new ID.

7x2 points still out-there

and move it to the black hole.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 07, 2011, 08:15:56 AM
About #5, I think here's the solution:

Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on October 07, 2011, 08:18:00 AM
Two points for you  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on February 05, 2012, 04:54:12 PM
13 NSU Prototyp Kohlmus Scirocco
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2012, 05:12:59 PM
The Kohlmus is far better than that...I suspect it's an handmade creation...but I think you found the inspiration for that.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on August 02, 2012, 04:56:30 AM
I know car #6!

It's a Wijchman, built bij Wijchman, a belgian engineer from Zonhoven, a guy who worked at Philips.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 02, 2012, 08:01:53 AM
Wow! Have you got any source supporting that? Even via PM?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on August 02, 2012, 12:23:55 PM
i will make a scan of my source tomorrow.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Limo on August 10, 2012, 03:44:28 PM
lost and found again...

(http://www.limozine.nl/wijchman/wijchman.jpg)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 12, 2012, 03:38:40 PM
Wonderful!
2 points for you!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: woodinsight on August 12, 2012, 03:58:00 PM
Great find Limo  :applause:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on April 03, 2013, 06:46:10 AM
I came across a car which I think is the same as #1. It is the 1919 Electricar, built by French watchmaker Armand Couaillet without great economical success.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 03, 2013, 01:11:11 PM
Extraorbrilliantoderful!
One by one they are all falling down!
Great find Wendax!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: RayTheRat on April 05, 2013, 11:57:36 AM
What more do you need to mark #5 as solved?  It appears that in reply 76 you were replying to the "solution" (the Warner Brothers Special with Davey Lee).  

Same thing on #1.  It appears that Wendax identified it as a "1919 Electricar, built by French watchmaker Armand Couaillet".
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 05, 2013, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: RayTheRat on April 05, 2013, 11:57:36 AM
What more do you need to mark #5 as solved?  It appears that in reply 76 you were replying to the "solution" (the Warner Brothers Special with Davey Lee). 

Same thing on #1.  It appears that Wendax identified it as a "1919 Electricar, built by French watchmaker Armand Couaillet".

Just time.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 05, 2013, 03:12:41 PM
1-SOLVED - 1919 Electricar BY Armand Couaillet Wendax x2
2-SOLVED - Biblex 1925, Wendax
3- CLUES: french, 30s.
4- SOLVED - Wesnigk Muster D Motordreirad Wendax
5- SOLVED - Warner Bros. Special Tom_I & Wendax
6- SOLVED - Wijchman, built bij Wijchman from Zonhoven Limo
7- SOLVED - Stimson Honda - Quiller
8- SOLVED - 1933 Stutz Pak-Age-Kar Woodinsight
9- SOLVED - 1947 Brush Electrical wagonette  Wendax
10- SOLVED - 1935 Mercedes-Benz 170 by Erdmann & Rossi Wendax
11- SOLVED - Monsieur Mathevet's Panhard Wendax
12- CLUES: VW-based swedish fibreglass sport car (Vokaro?) limo?
13- CLUES: NSU-engined
14- CLUES: swiss licence plate
15-SOLVED - Jaguar XKE Luciano Sarma - Oguerrerob
16-SOLVED - Six-whheled Opel Manta for the German movie "Manta - Der Film" Wendax

3 points awarded to Wendax and 1 to Tom_I

Now, there is
#3 - 2 points
#12 - 1 point for the missing bits
#13 - 2 points
#14 - 2 points
still available.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Carnut on July 06, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
I've actually reposted #12 as my NEH 2779 (currently in the Experts)!
I knew I'd seen it somewhere before..

I had it as a special home-built in Sweden in the early 1980s on a 1967 VW 1500 base.
Dzima1985 actually told me it was a repost and gave me a name, but he couldn't find it..
That name was Roter-VW Eigenbau, which actually only means "Red Home-Built VW"!
So I still don't know its name, if it ever had one...!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on July 06, 2013, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: Carnut on July 06, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
That name was Roter-VW Eigenbau.

Sorry to destroy hopes of identification, but that just means "red homebuilt VW".  :(
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Carnut on July 06, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: Wendax on July 06, 2013, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: Carnut on July 06, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
That name was Roter-VW Eigenbau.

Sorry to destroy hopes of identification, but that just means "red homebuilt VW".  :(

Yes, I know.. I was just editing my post whilst you were posting this!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: grobmotorix on July 10, 2013, 12:51:39 PM
Just some more facts about #8 (1933 Stutz Pak-Age-Kar):
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Carnut on July 15, 2013, 05:14:30 AM
Quote from: Carnut on July 06, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
I've actually reposted #12 as my NEH 2779 (currently in the Experts)!
I knew I'd seen it somewhere before..

I had it as a special home-built in Sweden in the early 1980s on a 1967 VW 1500 base.
Dzima1985 actually told me it was a repost and gave me a name, but he couldn't find it..
That name was Roter-VW Eigenbau, which actually only means "Red Home-Built VW"!
So I still don't know its name, if it ever had one...!

Is this the ID you were looking for PJ or is there more info available on this car that you need?!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 20, 2013, 05:29:00 PM
I'd like to know more about.
I couldn't find anything more where I took these pics and I hope we will find an answer.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Oguerrerob on December 23, 2014, 04:21:20 PM
13 must be solved? http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=29598.0
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 24, 2014, 07:53:49 AM
We already knew it was NSU based...now we know that is French...I'll wait to know more about.  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 21, 2015, 07:37:10 AM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on December 23, 2014, 04:21:20 PM
13 must be solved? http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=29598.0
Now it is ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: 4popoid on March 21, 2015, 02:26:17 PM
With regard to #3, I have come across the information below, and have not been able to find anything additional, including the name of the inventor.  Hopefully this will suffice.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: grobmotorix on March 21, 2015, 02:57:06 PM
Was #3 called Unibus?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 21, 2015, 04:14:29 PM
Quote from: 4popoid on March 21, 2015, 02:26:17 PM
With regard to #3, I have come across the information below, and have not been able to find anything additional, including the name of the inventor.  Hopefully this will suffice.


Quote from: Otto Puzzell on July 16, 2011, 09:33:26 AM
Re #3:

In Otto's reply there was the same article.
Quote from: grobmotorix on March 21, 2015, 02:57:06 PM
Was #3 called Unibus?

I don't know.  :huh:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: 4popoid on March 21, 2015, 06:19:09 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't understand what Otto's reply was, as it just shows "Re #3:".  Are you saying this article is incorrect, or just insufficient?
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 21, 2015, 06:30:07 PM
I took that pic from that article. I think it is as correct as an article can be but as you can see there's nothing about the builder except that he was French. I'd like to know his name or if the car was going to be produced with any name.  :-\
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: 4popoid on March 21, 2015, 07:10:44 PM
OK, now I understand.  In my opinion. this article seems to indicate that this vehicle was intended to be a pilot training device.  Hence, I doubt that that it was ever intended to be placed into production as means of transportation, and thus unlikely to have been given a name beyond: ??????? (inventor's name) Aviator/Pilot Trainer.  I'll try to locate the inventor's name, but I doubt that I will be successful by any means other than digging through ancient French patents (to which I have no access).   
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: dzima1985 on May 16, 2015, 05:15:07 PM
#12 was spotted at the 2015 Maikäfertreffen in Hannover.
1967 VW 1500 Eigenbau "Sunny" aus Schweden
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 14, 2015, 03:41:33 PM
Sorry Dzima, it seems I forgot to reply.
I hope sooner or later we'll know more about.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: dzima1985 on September 12, 2015, 02:47:21 PM
Was built by Mr. Petterson from Sweden.
Also known as Petterson VW 1500 -
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 13, 2015, 04:17:31 AM
Solved!
Thank you Dzima, point for you!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: dzima1985 on September 13, 2015, 08:58:33 AM
Thank you, Paul!
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on July 02, 2017, 11:22:31 AM
Car #14 appeared at the Fantastic Plastic meeting as the Renault Alpine A 310 Molinari Gr. 4:
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on July 07, 2017, 03:35:49 AM
... and it is for sale right now for CHF 32800.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 20, 2017, 04:27:27 AM
Excellent!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Sorry for the late reply.
Now only one is missing.
2 points for you.
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Allemano on July 28, 2017, 07:51:32 AM
Zwischengas geben lohnt...
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on July 28, 2017, 12:13:14 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: grobmotorix on July 28, 2017, 12:15:45 PM
 :D
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Wendax on February 14, 2019, 03:05:33 AM
A brochure of the L'Électricar from 1921, looking a littlebit different than the 1919 one featured here: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2016-45/wendax-1898/
Title: Re: PJ - 384 - Black Hole Candidates
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 11, 2025, 06:38:12 AM
Moving to Solved.
Only one is still missing and you can find it here:
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/the-brand-new-2025-vehicle-identification-board/who-built-this/