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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => Topic started by: Wendax on June 03, 2012, 04:31:43 PM

Title: Solved: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on June 03, 2012, 04:31:43 PM
Another batch of cars unknown to me, probably all German or Austrian again. #5 seems to be a little bit larger than the other ones. Have fun!

One point each for correct identifications, which have to be proven.
Points will be awarded immediately when earned.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 04, 2012, 05:38:14 AM
A tough one!
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Oguerrerob on June 06, 2012, 10:24:51 AM
Prewar cyclecar enigma 2.- I knew I'd seen this one:
Here a first of the fabulous collection of unidentified cars from Berlin based car historian Thomas Ulrich who visited us at the Paris Retromobile. Check this young fellow taking his first practice in a sturdy three wheeler of unknown origin. As the photo is German, that is the first country of manufacture to think of. On sheer visual judgement we presume it has a rear mounted aircooled engine. The vintage is a gamble, but we think early twenties. You may know and we are looking out for your opinion.

It's not an answer, there are two guesses:
Update IV by Thomas Ulrich: It's certainly no Diabolo. They where quite similar to the Morgans. I think it's a Mollmobile, even if they had normally four wheels, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Update III by editor Rutger Booy: I have my doubts about this car being a Diabolo. They were based on the Morgan and had a V-twin front-mounted Motosachoche engine. This car has clearly a mid-mounted kick-start engine.
Update II: best headline by Mark Nugent of Nugent Coachbuilding
Update by Wim van Rooijen: "I think that it is a German "Diabolo" produced between 1922-1927. Diabolo Kleinauto A.G Bruchsal"
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Oguerrerob on June 06, 2012, 11:49:38 AM
Prewar cyclecar enigma 6.- Looks like Mollmobil III
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on June 06, 2012, 01:29:56 PM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on June 06, 2012, 10:24:51 AM
Prewar cyclecar enigma 2.- I knew I'd seen this one:
Here a first of the fabulous collection of unidentified cars from Berlin based car historian Thomas Ulrich who visited us at the Paris Retromobile. Check this young fellow taking his first practice in a sturdy three wheeler of unknown origin. As the photo is German, that is the first country of manufacture to think of. On sheer visual judgement we presume it has a rear mounted aircooled engine. The vintage is a gamble, but we think early twenties. You may know and we are looking out for your opinion.

It's not an answer, there are two guesses:
Update IV by Thomas Ulrich: It's certainly no Diabolo. They where quite similar to the Morgans. I think it's a Mollmobile, even if they had normally four wheels, but otherwise they are quite similar.
Update III by editor Rutger Booy: I have my doubts about this car being a Diabolo. They were based on the Morgan and had a V-twin front-mounted Motosachoche engine. This car has clearly a mid-mounted kick-start engine.
Update II: best headline by Mark Nugent of Nugent Coachbuilding
Update by Wim van Rooijen: "I think that it is a German "Diabolo" produced between 1922-1927. Diabolo Kleinauto A.G Bruchsal"
I know that site. It is definitely not a Diabolo as you can see by comparing it with the Diabolo pictures at AutoPuzzles: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16700.0
I don't know any mention of a Mollmobil threewheeler. The Mollmobil is covered quite well in German car literature, and they all write about a fourwheeler only. 
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on June 06, 2012, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on June 06, 2012, 11:49:38 AM
Prewar cyclecar enigma 6.- Looks like Mollmobil III
The Mollmobil was a tandem seater, which this one isn't. The proportions are different, too. Compare http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4856.0
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 19, 2012, 02:41:23 PM
I was able to identify enigma #6 by looking through old magazines. It is definitely not a Mollmobil.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 02, 2012, 01:05:25 PM
Quote from: Wendax on September 19, 2012, 02:41:23 PM
I was able to identify enigma #6 by looking through old magazines. It is definitely not a Mollmobil.
I decided to separate #6 from the ones still unknown to me.
It can be found here now: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21966.new#new
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 16, 2012, 04:57:56 AM
I found a 1925 ad for the Borcharding which I will post later today. I think car no4 is a Borcharding
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 16, 2012, 05:05:40 AM
I'm looking forward to it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 16, 2012, 05:15:06 AM
Made with a phone-camera, but I hope it is still visible
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 16, 2012, 05:54:50 AM
Thank you very much for sharing the Borcharding drawing.

Having looked through my books I found that the Borcharding was an unmodified continuation of the Mollmobil. (Before that they built a three-wheeler I don't know a picture of.) I have attached a Mollmobil ad by Borcharding with the same drawing I happened to find right now by Google search.

I don't think #4 is a Borcharding or Mollmobil, because a characteristic feature of the Mollmobil was the absence of an Ackermann steering. It had a primitive pivot steering. Puzzle picture #4 shows a connection between the front axle near the wheels and the rest of the car. This rules out a pivot steering. Further on it seems to me that the axle is located more up front than the one of the Mollmobil.

Keep your eyes open. Some day we will find out...  ;)
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: GrahamClayton on October 20, 2012, 08:14:06 AM
Is #2 a circa 1923 Mops?
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 20, 2012, 03:18:36 PM
Quote from: GrahamClayton on October 20, 2012, 08:14:06 AM
Is #2 a circa 1923 Mops?
I don't know what it is, but I know that it is not a Mops, because that one looked different: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13656.0
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on November 01, 2013, 09:37:28 AM
One year without another guess  :(

Open for all now.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on December 19, 2013, 01:18:05 PM
I added a new #6 which looks quite spectacular. Any ideas, guys? I don't know anything about it.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on February 10, 2014, 02:01:22 PM
#4 is a repost. I'm sure that it is another Baja Cyclecar: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21966
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 10, 2014, 01:42:02 AM
Into the Black Hole
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on March 27, 2016, 04:23:51 PM
Another picture of enigma car 3:
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Fёdor on March 20, 2017, 04:30:44 PM

  Herz-Schroter Bijou 3,5ps Cyclecar
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on March 20, 2017, 05:07:22 PM
 :doh: I even posted it as a puzzle myself: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2012-41/solved-wendax-676-herz-schroter-cyclecar

Two well-earned points for opening my eyes.  :)
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on March 20, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Solved so far:

#1:
#2:
#3: Herz & Schröter Bijou
#4: Baja Cyclecar
#5:
#6:
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Fёdor on March 21, 2017, 01:56:46 PM

Many thanks for the points.

#5: very similar to Koco 5/25ps.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on March 22, 2017, 03:27:58 AM
Quote from: Fёdor on March 21, 2017, 01:56:46 PM

Many thanks for the points.

#5: very similar to Koco 5/25ps.
Similar, but not the same I think.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Fёdor on September 05, 2021, 09:18:24 AM
#5: Luwo 1923
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 05, 2021, 12:30:12 PM
I know that on a well known site this picture was featured a few days ago and identified as a Luwo. I asked the blogger if he has proof, but he had to deny and said it was just an educated guess by another photo collector. I still have my doubts as the picture was taken in Hamburg in front of the university building and the photo looks professionally made. I think it was made for the builder or  the coachbuilder of the car. Have a look at the rear license plate: it looks to be fixed provisionally. But why should a hardly known manufacturer from Munich let take pictures in Hamburg?

Do you have any Luwo pictures for comparison? I know none.
Title: Re: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: Wendax on February 24, 2025, 03:32:08 AM
#1 moved to https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/the-brand-new-2025-vehicle-identification-board/car-1-from-enigma-variations-(prewar-cyclecar-edition)/
#2 moved to https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/the-brand-new-2025-vehicle-identification-board/car-2-from-enigma-variations-(prewar-cyclecar-edition)
#5 moved to https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/the-brand-new-2025-vehicle-identification-board/car-5-from-enigma-variations-(prewar-cyclecar-edition)-is-it-a-luwo
#6 moved to https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/the-brand-new-2025-vehicle-identification-board/car-6-from-enigma-variations-(prewar-cyclecar-edition)

So this group puzzle of unidentified cars will now be declared as solved.
Title: Re: Solved: Enigma variations (Prewar cyclecar edition)
Post by: gte4289 on February 24, 2025, 01:32:17 PM
Nicely done. :thumbsup: