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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => The Brand-New 2025 Vehicle Identification Board => Topic started by: Wendax on May 28, 2012, 05:34:37 PM

Title: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 28, 2012, 05:34:37 PM
Over the past few months I've been coming across some pictures of cars unknown to me, but unfortunately there weren't even any descriptions coming along with them. So don't ask me anything about these cars. I don't know what they are. The only thing they have in common is that probably they all are postwar cars from Germany or Austria.

Any proven identification is worth at least one point. Earned points will be awarded immediately. Have fun!
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Oguerrerob on May 28, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
The postwar Enigma 2 is Müller&Schmidt-mobil 200cc 1950 'Jones&Smith-mobile' was an one-off home-made microcar built by mechanic Albert Hahne from Thale, DDR with DKW engine and Auto Union logo
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 29, 2012, 02:18:02 AM
 Identified:
#1:
#2: Müller & Schmidt-Mobil Harzperle by Albert Hahne (Oguerrerob), see also: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg431233/#msg431233
#3:
#4:
#5:
#6:
#7: Partially solved: East German, around 1950, perhaps Hansa 1100 chassis (Carnut), see also: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg491774/#msg491774
#8: Universal body by Wille, see https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/rookie-autopuzzles/pn-1160/
#9:
#10: Also to be found here: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2012-41/solved-neh-2143-vw-kubelwagen-eigenbau-with-renault-panhard-parts/
#11: More pictures can be found here: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg658441/#msg658441
#12:
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 29, 2012, 02:18:48 AM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on May 28, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
The postwar Enigma 2 is Müller&Schmidt-mobil 200cc 1950 'Jones&Smith-mobile' was an one-off home-made microcar built by mechanic Albert Hahne from Thale, DDR with DKW engine and Auto Union logo
:doh:
I should have known that one, having seen the colorized pictures at MrScharroo's picture account.
One point for you.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on June 04, 2012, 07:44:07 AM
One more postwar enigma added (#9).
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: barrett on July 17, 2012, 07:30:47 AM
I wonder if #3 could be another variation on the built-from-plans Pilot as seen here?

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20895.0
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on July 17, 2012, 08:35:14 AM
Quote from: barrett on July 17, 2012, 07:30:47 AM
I wonder if #3 could be another variation on the built-from-plans Pilot as seen here?

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20895.0
I think it rather unprobable that those plans were known in post-WW II Germany.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: barrett on July 17, 2012, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: Wendax on July 17, 2012, 08:35:14 AM
Quote from: barrett on July 17, 2012, 07:30:47 AM
I wonder if #3 could be another variation on the built-from-plans Pilot as seen here?

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=20895.0
I think it rather unprobable that those plans were known in post-WW II Germany.

I promise to write 100 times

"I will read the first post thoroughly before attempting to answer"

;)
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 04, 2012, 03:30:33 AM
One more postwar enigma added (#10) and, yes, I know where the door originates from.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Allemano on September 04, 2012, 07:36:09 AM
Saved #9 for a future puzzle until I've found it here again...
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 04, 2012, 07:38:37 AM
Quote from: Allemano on September 04, 2012, 07:36:09 AM
Saved #9 for a future puzzle until I've found it here again...
Do you know anything about it except where the picture was taken?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Allemano on September 04, 2012, 07:45:04 AM
Nothing except we both know from that internet source...
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 14, 2012, 01:03:40 PM
Enigma #11 added
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Carnut on September 20, 2012, 12:21:00 PM
I  have no. 3 as being called a 'Europa' but I can't remember off-hand where I found it.
Here are a couple of pictures of it below.
I'll have a look into it tomorrow!

Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 22, 2012, 05:08:28 AM
Does No6 wears an Austrian number plate?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 22, 2012, 05:13:10 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 22, 2012, 05:20:18 AM
Do you have any other view available?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 22, 2012, 05:38:57 AM
No
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 22, 2012, 05:39:26 AM
what is the first letter of the Austrian number plate?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 22, 2012, 05:45:14 AM
It was W for Vienna.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on October 24, 2012, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: pnegyesi on October 22, 2012, 05:39:26 AM
what is the first letter of the Austrian number plate?
Yes
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on October 24, 2012, 01:44:04 PM
I see, then it is not the one I had in mind
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on November 05, 2012, 04:09:21 AM
Does this look like your No6?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on November 05, 2012, 04:12:15 AM
It looks like another car to me, but you should post it as a puzzle. It surely is obscure.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on December 25, 2012, 04:36:42 AM
Your pic no11 just popped up in Austro Classic as an unknown
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on December 25, 2012, 04:41:48 AM
We are not alone  ;D
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on March 22, 2013, 08:21:16 AM
Another one added to complete the dozen.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 14, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
#9- "Diese Aufnahmen sind in Elsfleth an der Hunte aufgenommen worden und zwar von der dortigen Hafenpier".
I tried to translate this line and I got the general meaning but nothing more.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 14, 2013, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on May 14, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
#9- "Diese Aufnahmen sind in Elsfleth an der Hunte aufgenommen worden und zwar von der dortigen Hafenpier".
I tried to translate this line and I got the general meaning but nothing more.
It just means that this picture was taken in the harbour area of Elsfleth, which is a town at the Hunte river. No information about the car, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 14, 2013, 02:52:33 PM
Grazie!
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Carnut on November 19, 2013, 10:05:02 AM
I've got a couple more pictures of your Enigma No. 7, which I've posted below.
All I know is that it's a home-built special built in the old GDR and registered there in 1950.
I don't know what the basis was, but it looks like it might have been an EMW?
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on November 19, 2013, 01:15:48 PM
That's a great find and worth a point just for providing the pictures. According to the registration plates it is East German, sometimes between 1945 and 1953. I don't think that there is a then new EMW underneath, but a prewar chassis. The hubcaps and wheels are most similar to those of the Hansa 1100. The fact that there is a stock Hansa behind it could underline this assumption.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Carnut on November 19, 2013, 06:42:48 PM
Thanks!
I've try digging a bit further but come up with zilch.
I'll keep looking though!
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on January 19, 2014, 09:59:43 AM
Another picture of Albert Hahne's car (#2):
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Oguerrerob on May 02, 2014, 07:38:50 PM
10 this one appears in the mrscharroo gallery as VW Unikum +- 1950
"The name of the builder of this homemade car is not known but the plate indicates that he lived in or near Ottweiler, Saarland in Germany near the French border. The vehicle is probably built on a VW Kübelwagen chassis. The VW emblem is shown clearly. The split hood flap suggests the idea of a front luggage compartment. The car might be rear engined. The doors are from the Renault 4CV and the headlights from a Panhard Dyna."
And colorized looks this way
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 03, 2014, 02:11:50 AM
Yes, that is what the source says and how far we got when Carnut posted this one as a single puzzle: www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=22050
Unikum just means that it is unique.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 10, 2014, 01:21:07 PM
The unsolved puzzle pictures restored
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on December 13, 2014, 01:48:08 AM
I came across another photo of enigma 7:

(The license plate is from Saxony-Anhalt.)
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on February 12, 2016, 08:31:52 AM
Open for all, not just Pros and Feature Writers.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pguillem on February 12, 2016, 09:47:01 AM
#10 is a Volkswagen Eigenbau Unikum from Saarland

"Das Fahrzeug ist auf einem VW-Fahrgestell aufge- baut, der stolze Erbauer zeigt es ja mit dem VW- Emblem deutlich an. Die ungewöhnlichen Radkappen sollen wohl die Radnaben der VW- Vorderachse verdecken. Das Fehlen jeglicher Kühllufteinlässe an der Wagenfront ist typisch für ein Fahrzeug mit Heckmotor. Außerdem deutet die geteilte Haubenklappe auf die Idee eines vorderen Kofferraums hin. Da nur rund zwei Prozent der bis Kriegsende gebauten VW-Fahrzeuge Limousinen waren, handelt es sich mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit um ein Kübelwagen-Fahrgestell (siehe oben unter a). Damals hätte wohl kein Saarländer eine KdF- Limousine "geschlachtet". Die Türen stammen vom Renault 4CV, die Scheinwerfer sind eine Anleihe vom Panhard Dyna X. Der Rest ist einem kreativen Blechkünstler zu verdanken."
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on February 12, 2016, 09:52:59 AM
Quote from: Wendax on May 03, 2014, 02:11:50 AM
Yes, that is what the source says and how far we got when Carnut posted this one as a single puzzle: www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=22050
Unikum just means that it is unique.
Still looking for its builder.  :(
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pguillem on February 12, 2016, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: pguillem on February 12, 2016, 09:47:01 AM
#10 is a Volkswagen Eigenbau Unikum from Saarland

"Das Fahrzeug ist auf einem VW-Fahrgestell aufge- baut, der stolze Erbauer zeigt es ja mit dem VW- Emblem deutlich an. Die ungewöhnlichen Radkappen sollen wohl die Radnaben der VW- Vorderachse verdecken. Das Fehlen jeglicher Kühllufteinlässe an der Wagenfront ist typisch für ein Fahrzeug mit Heckmotor. Außerdem deutet die geteilte Haubenklappe auf die Idee eines vorderen Kofferraums hin. Da nur rund zwei Prozent der bis Kriegsende gebauten VW-Fahrzeuge Limousinen waren, handelt es sich mit großer Wahrscheinlichkeit um ein Kübelwagen-Fahrgestell (siehe oben unter a). Damals hätte wohl kein Saarländer eine KdF- Limousine "geschlachtet". Die Türen stammen vom Renault 4CV, die Scheinwerfer sind eine Anleihe vom Panhard Dyna X. Der Rest ist einem kreativen Blechkünstler zu verdanken."

Oops ! I didn't see Oguerrob answer.  I don't understand, as MsScharoo's picture was pretty visible...
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Carnut on February 12, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
It was actually puzzled by me here:

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=22050.msg233669#msg233669

but I didn't know what the builder was, just what the source of some of the parts was, which is what oguerrerob has repeated...
And in that thread there's a link back to this thread!
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 13, 2016, 03:24:30 AM
Black Hole
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on June 18, 2016, 05:41:45 AM
Enigma #7 gone camping some years later (with GDR numberplates):
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on April 01, 2017, 09:23:27 AM
Some more information about enigma #2: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg431233/#msg431233
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on September 29, 2018, 12:55:01 PM
Please don't solve my PN1160 :)

As Wendax kindly pointed out it is his Enigma 8.
From Wagen und Karosseriebau, April, 1951

Ein schnittiger Sportwagen der Firma Wille, Hamburg-Harburg
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on September 29, 2018, 05:25:14 PM
 :doh: I knew the first two letters of the coachbuilder's name, I knew that my enigma picture was taken by a Hamburg photographer, and my parents-in-law live in the same village just two streets away from where Wille was located until some years ago. But I didn't draw the connection. :doh:

Two well-earned points for you, Pal. I think it's okay, if I add my unmodified picture to your thread https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/rookie-autopuzzles/pn-1160/, so you can close it as solved.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: pnegyesi on September 29, 2018, 11:17:32 PM
Thank you.

I am now back home from the Deutsches Nationalbibliothek. It was a week well spent :)
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on August 04, 2019, 04:19:43 AM
Some more information about enigma #7: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg491774/#msg491774
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on February 24, 2025, 04:03:57 AM
Moved from the Black Hole. I will try to incorporate the unidentified cars into my Eigenbau of the month thread over the next months / years, so this post will be declared solved some time in the future.
Title: Re: Enigma Variations (Postwar edition)
Post by: Wendax on May 01, 2025, 06:05:29 AM
More pictures of enigma #11 can be found here: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/features-stories-and-photos/eigenbau-of-the-month/msg658441/#msg658441