Puzzle #305 - 1.5 Litre Rear Engined saloon made for BMC by ERA

[Otto Puzzell]

Know what it is?

Please, respond below and let us know the make and model designation of the car posted here.

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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

Thanks!

[Allan L]

French?

[SeaLion]

A british Ford with a mid-mounted V4 engine perhaps?

[Otto Puzzell]

French?

Yes!

[Otto Puzzell]

A british Ford with a mid-mounted V4 engine perhaps?

No.

[Tifosi]

Is it another Simca 929 Project design study?


Dan

[Allan L]

Citroën?

[Otto Puzzell]

Is it another Simca 929 Project design study?


Dan

No, but I believe you are on the verge of solving this one.

[Otto Puzzell]

Citroën?

No

[Tifosi]

Is it another Simca 929 Project design study?


Dan

No, but I believe you are on the verge of solving this one.

Rootes Swallow...ca. 1959 or so...


Dan

[SeaLion]

The Rootes Swallow prototype with the possible mid-mounted V8 engine was called Swift. But the Swallow project was not french, mr Utz, but british.

[Otto Puzzell]

 

[Tifosi]

Is it another Simca 929 Project design study?


Dan

No, but I believe you are on the verge of solving this one.

Here's the link I went to to try to solve the puzzle:

<<< link removed >>>

I went down the blue column until I found Rootes Swallow, which yields trhe same results as Rootes Asp...both show this car and ID it as a Rootes Swallow.  It's evidently from aboutr 1962, not 1959 as I tried to time it earlier.


Dan

Rootes Swallow...ca. 1959 or so...


Dan

[wingroad]

This is not the long tailed Rootes Swallow,but the prototype of a 1.5 Litre Rear Engined saloon made for BMC by ERA.I do not know its name or codename.
Reference page 35  of British Leyland:The truth about the cars by Jeff Daniels.

[Otto Puzzell]

I do believe you are right:

"The story of Rootes' Swallow actually dates back to the 1950s, and shows, yet again, how the British motor industry enjoyed a good deal of cross fertilization between the companies. The automotive consultancy company ERA, based in Dunstable, were commissioned by BMC to produce an advanced saloon car - with a view to challenging BMC's own designers (led by Sir Alec Issigonis) - which would have been intended to fit in the range above the Mini. The resulting rear-engined car was then sold to back BMC, who quickly dropped the idea, figuring that the Mini concept was just fine when scaled up. The rest, they say, is history...

So what is the link between this amusing concept and the Rootes Swallow? In 1959, ERA was sold to the Zenith/Solex concern, who had little interest in producing cars, preferring to concentrate on research into carburettors and fuel injection systems. The design team responsible for ERA's BMC proposal, therefore, concluded that it was time to jump ship, preferring to remain in the car business. David Hodkin headed that team, and they found a berth at Rootes, which at the time, was also attempting to re-invent itself.

In an exercise to challenge Issigonis' creative thinking, BMC management commissioned ERA to come up with a forward-thinking family car for the 1960s. This rear engined prototype was the result... dropped like a hot coal by BMC (and stored in their tunnel at Longbridge), the designers responsible for this car joined Rootes and set about designing a replacement for the Audax."

So, almost five years anon, I'll open this puzzle back up, with a point on offer if somebody can either prove this is the Rootes evolution of the ERA design OR produce a picture of what this cat looked like when Rootes was toying with it. Or, did the car's appearance remain intact?

[barrett]

Well, I think Woodinisght has proved it over in the other topic as he has scanned the front view of this car (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19440.25;topicseen) which is the final VdP-built prototype. The photos and information come from a very well-researched article in Classic Cars magazine from the early 1990s and I've no reason to doubt its accuracy.

I think the confusion originally arose from the website where this puzzle picture was taken which doesn't make it particularly clear whether this is supposed to be the BMC/ERA prototype or the Swallow. The actual Rootes Swallow car is pictured below, and as you can see is quite different in appearance from the BMC/ERA car. I hope this clears things up a bit.

[Tom_I]

I agree with what Barrett has said. The trouble with the source which has been quoted in this thread is that it has taken text from another website, and things have become a bit confused in the process.

The other source is a well-respected site, the authorship of the article is credited, and it is published in a blog style, so that people can comment on it if anything is wrong.

The third paragraph quoted by Otto earlier seems oddly out of place, repeating what has already been said, and this is because in the original version it was the caption to a photo - the puzzle photo in fact. It is shown below in its proper context, and also another view of the Swallow prototype, again with its caption.

It is clear that the author considered that this was the ERA-BMC prototype, and that it was retained by BMC, so would not have made its way to Rootes.

Another reason why this would not be an early Rootes prototype is that the Swallow was originally conceived as a front-engined, front-wheel-drive car (which the puzzle car is obviously not), and the rear-engined layout was only adopted later.

[Otto Puzzell]

Fair enough. As wingroad flagged this malfeasance, I will award him a point, along with Barrett.

[wingroad]

Thanks for that Otto,was not expecting it.