My Odd Cincinnati Experience

[Otto Puzzell]

As you know, I went to Ohio last week to attend a business seminar - or at least what I had been lead to believe was a business seminar. What I experienced was something the likes of which about I have read and heard, but never thought I'd encounter. Prepare for a weird and creepy tale of what transpired. I have troubled by this evening ever since. 

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Some weeks ago, a coworker recommended attending a group seminar, presented in suburban Cincinnati. After the first night, I had to excuse myself and return home to Detroit. The seminar was scheduled to take place Thursday and Friday evening, and all day Saturday and Sunday. I hope to following will make clear why I bailed out.

Upon arrival, while mingling in the reception area, I was approached by a couple of returning students, who shared with me how their life had changed, and how people they live and work with thought their behavior strange after attending - one man told me he had picked up the nickname "Jedi Knight" at his place of work.

Once inside, a couple of things seemed odd to me. About 1/3 of the students were identified on their nametags as 'Group Leaders', and a panel of 6 people, including the seminar employee who processed my application to attend, sat at the back of the class. Throughout the evening, they did not speak - they just watched the students.

Early on was read a list of rules that got my BS meter going:

•   No bathroom breaks outside of scheduled breaks - of which there was only one, some 3+ hours into the evening.

•   No note taking. If anyone was seen writing, their paper and pen would be taken from them.

•   No phone calls. If a student was expecting a call of a critical nature, they were to give their cell phone to one of the seminar employees at the back of the room, and they would field the calls and decide if it was of sufficient importance to let you take the call.

•   No drinking after class.

•   If taking prescription medicines, students were to let the employees at the back of the room know, and they would prompt you when it was time to take your meds, as well as get you the water to take them with (again, no leaving the room).

We were also told that when we returned to our homes, our families, our friends, and our church would likely begin turning against us. This theme would repeat itself in very personal ways later in the evening, including during the smaller group sessions.

The ideal path, we were told repeatedly, was to follow up this program with a much more expensive 'advanced' program, and to return, year after year, to 'renew'. We were also told really successful people promote the program to others, and volunteer in 'the kitchen', though nobody explained what or where 'the kitchen' was.

I thought to myself, 'what the heck'? My body language was picked up on, and the seminar Leader admonished the group, saying no more arm folding would be allowed by me or anyone else. I noticed the Leader often crossed his arms while breaking down one student or another. My ongoing raised eyebrow was noticed as well, and almost every time I looked around the room, one or more of the Group Leaders was staring at me.

The first organized activity in the class was to tell everyone in the class what you were trying to 'fix' by attending. There were a few major constituencies within the student ranks: women who had been wronged by men (husbands, boyfriends, or fathers) to the point that they couldn't enjoy life, men who had been wronged by women (wives, girlfriends, or mothers) to the point that they could not enjoy life, children or partners of previous seminar attendees who had cajoled them into attending, and employees of companies who had told them to attend. I was one of very few people there who was neither in crisis or to appease somebody else. There was one fellow from a drug rehab program that was pointed to the seminar by a church.

When it came time to give my spiel as to why I was there, I didn't really have a crisis to share, so I told the folks I sometimes feel guilty for the abundant life God has given me. I had to tell them something, right?  I did notice some puzzled looks from the panel at the back of the room. Perhaps they were thinking, 'If he's not screwed up, why's he here?'

One of the first exercises after that was to approach and address every other student and Group Leader in the room, telling them one of four things:

1.   I trust you.
2.   I don't trust you.
3.   I don't know if I trust you.
4.   I don't care to tell you if I trust you.

Being a logical thinker, as well as a polite chap, I shared with each of them that I did not know if I trusted them. Some looked trustworthy, others did not, but who could tell? I didn't know them from Adam. After we did that, we were instructed to sit in groups of three and share what we had said and felt during this exercise.

Coincidentally, or perhaps not, two of the Group Leaders were pared with me, and insisted on holding my hands during this chat session. Lucky me – nobody else got double-teamed. None of the other groups in the room was holding hands, either. When it was my turn to share with this pair, I told them what I had said to each of the students. The male Group Leader told me that was wrong, that either I trust people, or I do not. I asked 'like a light switch, on or off'? He said 'yes – exactly – it's black or white'. I told him I thought that was flawed on two levels. One, not knowing one thing about these people other than the name on their nametag and their previously-shared reason for attending, I did not have sufficient data to trust or not trust them.
Second, even if I know someone very well, I may trust his or her intentions but not their abilities. As an example, I told them I trust my wife implicitly, but I would not trust her to fix the furnace. Both Group Leaders agreed that made sense, and seemed disappointed that I was not falling into line.

Throughout this handholding session, the male Group Leader kept moving his thumb against my hand in a staccato fashion. Very odd.

After I was able to get my hands back, the next exercise was to share stories about who we did not trust, and why. Every story was turned against the teller by the seminar Leader. If the student did not trust somebody, they were told they were wrong, and that they really did not trust themselves. Seeing this as a ploy to get us into groupthink (we are all broken by life, and the Leader can fix us!), I did not volunteer a story. One man, who did, told the Leader that when his trust was betrayed, he chalked it up to experience and said a prayer for the person who wronged hem, because that is what his bible told him to do. The Leader told him his understanding of the bible was wrong. 'So this gentleman's interpretation of God's word is trumped by the Leader?' I thought.

Throughout the evening, if a student commented or suggested anything to another student during one of these exercises, they was told 'you're tying to fix him (or her)'; stop doing that! - the implication being that only the Leader could 'fix' anyone.     
 
Our next activity was to close our eyes and repeat a mantra: "I don't trust myself, I don't understand myself, and I don't like myself. We were told to wallow in how those words made us feel.

We were then given another mantra, "I love you and I trust you, even though I don't understand you" This was repeated over and over, and we were told to wallow in how those words made us feel. Strangely missing was anything to balance our earlier mantra about not liking ourselves. I though that odd, but much in keeping with what I was beginning to think was not an altruistic organization wanting to help me to enjoy my life more. I was sure at this point that there was a concerted attempt to program us going on.  We were then told to repeat the encounter exercise, and tell each person in the room, individually, "I love you and I trust you, even though I don't understand you". In other words, lie to everyone in the room.

After the much delayed bathroom break (why did they promote the coffee and water so heavily before the class, and during this break, if we only going to be allowed to urinate every 3+ hours?) we were told to pick the Group Leader we most wanted to work with in a group setting. That was a Hobb's choice.

I chose the person I considered the least offensive, since she had not been giving me the stink-eye like the others. We all huddled together and were told to tell our little group about ourselves, while new-age music was played on the sound system. I told the group about the makeup of my family, my job, etc. The Group Leader asked where my wife was. When I told her I had attended the class on my own, she told me 'you are very brave'. Huh? She said it would have been easy to not attend if my wife did not want me to. Where did she get the impression that my wife didn't want me there? I got the distinct feeling this was a practiced line they use to drive a wedge between attendees and their families, and install themselves in their place. I told her, 'OK, if you say so...'

It was now time to get into a group hug, close our eyes and listen to secular songs about the brotherhood of man, Gandhi, the poor, etc., though I'm not sure why. While our eyes were closed, I heard people moving around the room, and felt something brush against my arm. (Upon returning to my hotel that night, I found a line of purple ink on my elbow.)

As the evening was drawing to a close, we were then told we would have to write three pages in a journal about how the class would change us, and that we should repeat the 'I love you' mantra throughout the day, before returning Friday night. We were also told to give 'our' Group Leader the address we were staying at and our phone numbers, in case there was a 'problem' and didn't show up for Friday's session.

My BS meter was pegged. This was a freekin' cult!

After one more eyes-closed group hug where we told to 'listen to the words' of another secular song, I picked up my 'homework' sheet, got back to my hotel (it was now after midnight Friday morning), and booked a return flight to Detroit for later that day. If 6 hours on Thursday night was this bizarre, what night I have encountered on Friday night, or during the all-day Saturday and Sunday session? Would they have successfully turned me against my family, my friends, and my church, installing themselves in their place? I like to think I have have a strong mind, but the fact that this evening still troubles me so makes me wonder. 

I have contacted the seminar folks and requested a refund of the tuition. I was told I was not entitled to a refund;  I could only collect a refund after completing all four days. I may have to take them to court.

Have any of you encountered this kind of group before? Do you know of other individual who have experienced this? Do these sound like cultish activities to you?

[Ultra]

Wild times in Cinci!!!!! 

Never been to anything like that.  Not sure those people would have let me stay in the room once my BS meter had been pegged.

[Ultra]

What was the name of the seminar?

The name of the group?

Let's have some fun giving those people a taste of their own medicine. 

[Jagman]

I'm with Ultra, more info please........

And now that you've escaped, can you understand why your employer thought you should attend this (did they pay, or was this to be a reimbursed expense?) That would really tend to make me wonder about my future employment with this company......

I am very tired of people who think they can "fix" me..........

You have a lot more patience than me where this kind of tomfoolery is concerned, I'm afraid I wouldn't have lasted thru the first 10 minute dis-orientation period..........

You know, this sounds like that PSI group. I had an employee who went thru their program and was never the same, his productivity went thru the floor, all he did was try to "convert" people to his way of thinking instead of selling cars. He finally quit when his income got too low, and went into real estate of all things, with his wife.....

[Otto Puzzell]

It's called "Life Success Seminars". http://www.lifesuccessseminars.com

A lot of went on there reminded me of what I have read about Landmark Forum, which was a spinoff of EST, which was, in turn, a spinoff of Scientology. A company I worked for before had a hive of Landmark Forum zombies, but I didn't get roped in.

I took on good faith when my coworker suggested LSS. I won't make that mistake again.

My boss though it would be a good idea to attend, based on my coworkers recommendation (she heads up HR). I'm supposed to get reimbursed.

Otherwise, the lady that recommended the seminar seems a sensible person, though she does play the victim card a bit too often. I can see how they'd get into her head easier then they would mine.

I think after my boss reads my write-up, he'll understand. Unless he's already become one of them....

I'm not sure how to broach this when I go back to the office tomorrow. 

[Jagman]

Unless he's already become one of them..

That's a scary thought.................might be job hunting if so, unless you can do an in-company transfer or something.......

You all do realize how much this sounds like a sci-fi movie, right?

[Otto Puzzell]

You bet I do   

[Jagman]

Certainly looks innocuous enough from the web page........even had you been able to check them out on the web ahead of time, you might not have been able to see these techniques coming till they started.

Almost as bad as a multi level marketing seminar! Glad you escaped relatively unscathed........but good luck getting your money back.

[Ultra]

You bet I do   

You have entered......

The Twilight Zone!!!

[Otto Puzzell]

After my collections letter to these goons was returned unopened and marked 'cannot forward', I engaged to BBB in southern Ohio, and shared the whole odd tale with them.

They contacted LSS, who told the BBB that the rules were only 'suggestions', typical of any business seminar or training function. Nevertheless, for some odd reason, they refunded my money...

Case closed. 

[Ultra]

Karn is buying the beer.

[Otto Puzzell]

We'll see... 

[Stephen M]

I missed this when originally posted....I guess this meant no trip to Wright Patterson AFB Museum 

A lot of the dis-orientation stuff is standard cult practice, and is used to varying degrees by Fraternal and Religious groups. In short, you want to:

1) Identify vulnerable people (domestic issues, people who feel alone, etc)
2) Disconnect them from the outside world (hand over your cell phone, confine them to an unfamiliar location)
3) Weaken their resolve with sleep deprivation (lots of caffeine and sugar, keep the body up while the mind shuts down)
4) Discourage expressions of individuality (let's all chant the same thing! You! Why aren't you chanting?!)
5) Make them dependent on you (seizing prescription meds is a very common tactic)

It's also common to deprive people of any sense of time...covering clocks, asking people to remove watches, closing blinds on windows, etc. Also be wary of any meeting where the "helper"-to-student ratio is 1:6 or lower. If you've got something legitimate to teach, you need maybe 3-5 people to run a seminar for anywhere from 100-1000 attendees.

Knowing the warning signs, I would have bolted after the reading of the rules.  Loudly, if necessary. They hate to lose people but won't risk a scene.

-Stephen M

[Otto Puzzell]

I'm just glad it's over. My boss was very cool about it, and apologized a million times. Too bad the company's out almost $1,000 in airfare, hotel and rental car costs, plus the two days lost productivity while I was not in the office.

[Jagman]

Overall, I think you came out OK, with just a couple of "lost" days, and you got your money back - Well done!

Glad you didn't get brainwashed by these goons............