The books that have never been written yet - and should be!

[Paul Jaray]

There's an interesting project going on here:

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19922.0

Here is the right place to discuss it.

[als15]

Thanks, Paul Jaray.

The reason why I suggested to create this topic is because this is one of the (digital) places where there are more experts, enthusiasts, writers and potential book authors.
And there is also plenty of readers.
And, finally, there are publishers. At least one, that's me, with my small publishing house.

So it could be a great place where ideas born, are discussed, developed and perhaps become real books.

At least with one it already happened: basing on the discussion started in the topic linked above, I've begun writing the "Encyclopaedia of Italian Coachbuilders", that will be approximately ready next year (it's a hard job and both me and my wife are working a lot on it).

So, if anybody of us has an idea, a suggestion, a request for a book that has never been written yet and should be, this is the right place to share it with the other autopuzzlers.

[Iluvatar]

 

[RayTheRat]

This is about a book that HAS been written and is sort of a response to the wish for an encyclopedia of Italian coachbuilders.  I'm sure many Autopuzzlers are aware that there's a book called "A-Z British Coachbuilders" by Nick Walker.  I got a copy of it  some time ago and it's available on amazon.com.

I've looked for books referring to coachbuilders from other countries: French, Italian, German, etc. to no avail.   There IS a book called "Dictionary of World Coachbuilders and Car Stylists" which is out of print and supposedly available in CD-ROM or DVD form, but I haven't found a way to order it yet.  I'd prefer it that way, since it's easier (for me) to search my computer than go thru a book, page by page...and I've accumulated a fair number of car books over the years.  So I'll keep looking for the CD/DVD format stuff.

RtR

[pnegyesi]

Ray, you mean Marian-Suman Hreblay's list? I can get you a copy - but you have to be patient. I already promised PJ to get hold of a Czech book for him, but it will take a bit of time

As for the world of coachbuilders, just a few tidbits: Nick Georgano&Co created an Encyclopedia of World coachbuilders, but it is far, far from complete.
There's a book on Swedish coachbuilders, Jan Kralik published a few books on Czech coachbuilders (like Uhlik, Petera etc.), Jan Tulis wrote a book on Sodomka. D'Ieteren in Belgium self-published a book on their own history including coachbuilding years. Serge Bellu just published an Encyclopedia of French coachbuilders.
There's already a book on Italian coachbuilders, though it is far from complete.

And magyarjarmu.hu will have a list of Hungarian coachbuilders soon (hopefully within two weeks)

[RayTheRat]

Ray, you mean Marian-Suman Hreblay's list? I can get you a copy - but you have to be patient. I already promised PJ to get hold of a Czech book for him, but it will take a bit of time

Yes.  I've sent an email to Mr. Hreblay.  If he responds, I'll get it directly from him and save you the trouble.  If not, I may ask to rely on you to get me one.  Time isn't a problem.  I've got the rest of my life.    And here in a little while, I'm going to be real busy because car show season is starting up (I do a lot of photography at shows) and then salt flats season will begin in August (I photograph all events for landracing.com)...and I still need to get my race car fixed.  When it went "BANG', it broke the transmission.     There's plenty of work to do.

As for the world of coachbuilders, just a few tidbits: Nick Georgano&Co created an Encyclopedia of World coachbuilders, but it is far, far from complete.

Is that "The Beaulieu Encyclopedia of the Automobile: Coachbuilding?"  If so, it's a bit expensive at $250.  I could use that money on my race car.   

There's a book on Swedish coachbuilders, Jan Kralik published a few books on Czech coachbuilders (like Uhlik, Petera etc.), Jan Tulis wrote a book on Sodomka. D'Ieteren in Belgium self-published a book on their own history including coachbuilding years. Serge Bellu just published an Encyclopedia of French coachbuilders.
There's already a book on Italian coachbuilders, though it is far from complete.

I guess I have a little more searching to do.  Thank you very much for those titles and authors.

And magyarjarmu.hu will have a list of Hungarian coachbuilders soon (hopefully within two weeks)

Now that sounds pretty good!  However, I'm not sure I have enough time to learn the Magyar language.     I suppose I'll have to rely on Google Translate.    I just used it on the home page and it does a pretty good job. 

Again, thanks for the resources.  It's time for me to go to bed and I guess you're just starting your day.  I hope it's a good one for you.

RtR

[Paul Jaray]

The books I'd buy immediatly:
A decent book about Japanese and Brazilian cars and one about kit cars, replicas etc outside UK and USA.

[DeAutogids]

Well I would say a good book on South American cars would be welcome.

[Carnut]

The problem with most books and probably the ones mentioned above (I don't know because I haven't seen all of them) is that they are notable more for what is missing than for what they contain.

The book of Italian Carrozzeria, the one book that is the most important of them all, is such a vast subject it must be impossible to do it all in one volume and is such a massive undertaking I'm not really surprised no-one has attempted it properly yet..

I applaud Alessandro's intention to do it and am sure he will give it the full attention it most surely deserves, and I for one can't wait for it!

[RayTheRat]

I got an email from Marian-Suman Hreblay who tells me that his CD won't be available until July and it will be text only with no photos.  I'm still thinking this over as to whether it's a good thing or not. 

Anyway, I'd sure go for info on both South American and kit cars.  Those are both good ideas.

RtR

[als15]

A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..

For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.

What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).

Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.

Do you think I'm in the right direction?

[75america]

The books I'd buy immediatly:
A decent book about Japanese and Brazilian cars and one about kit cars, replicas etc outside UK and USA.

The best book about Japanese (mainstream production) cars I found so far is ' The 20th century of the Japanese automobile'.  Biggest disadvantages are that it only contains the production cars of the mainstream brands and that it is written in Japanese only.  Only the title is in English!  Even the brands and model names are in Japanese.  I'm not an expert in Japanses cars, so for me this source is not really a big help in identifying the cars (that's why I can easily give this source away on Autopuzzles) but it gives a very good impression of which Japanese automobiles have been made in the 20th century.  Due to my lack of experience with Japanese cars, I do not know how complete it is.  A nice gimmick is that it is bounded 'Japanese style' (The book starts at the back).  I just love this book!

[Otto Puzzell]

Another 75+ puzzles that now will never happen

[75america]

A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..

For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.

What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).

Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.

Do you think I'm in the right direction?

To reach an as large as possible audience, this will indeed be the correct and most logic approach.

The 2 biggest setbacks about the Beaulieu for me are:
A lot of coachbuilders are missing, so be as complete as possible
The Beaulieu works with a 'main list' and a 'supplementary list'  which makes it harder to find something back, so work with only 1 list.

From all of your books, this is the one that needs English text absolutely the most. So I hope that it will be foreseen.


What I would add is a map of Italy, with a detailed shot of Turin (and possibly Milan) that indicates where the carrozzieri were located (although some of the carrozzieri moved a couple of times so I have not figured out yet how to cope with that on the map.

I would also add a list (including some basic info) of the important men behind the Italian coachbuilding industry.  And not only Italian ones but for example also Dany Brawand, Tom Tjaarda,...

And a timeline summary that gives a clear overview of when the companies were active.

When reading about carrozzieri, I have always the impression that everybody knew everybody and that they all worked together.   
The problem is that the 'complete picture' is always missing so what I also would love to see (although I don't know how to do it) is an overview with the links between the different companies/people

All the above mentioned suggestions can maybe be combined in 1 general chapter.

Obviously, because this is the concept of an encyclopedia, the most important companies like Pininfarina and Bertone will get the biggest attention (with their most famous creations). 
But for us 'experts', there is already enough information available on the market about these big ones and their big successes.  We (or at least me) are in particular looking for more information about the 'small' ones (and that is relative because even about a giant like Vignale, little to nothing has been published).  And concerning the big ones, I'm looking for more information about their lesser known creations like the 1956 DKW Pininfarina, 1978 Autobianchi A 112 Zagato,...
But I think that this might be the theme for yet another book called something like 'The forgotten and unsuccessful creations of the Italian Carrozzieri'.

As always I'm fully prepared to help where I can!

[als15]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The book will indeed be published in two editions: Italian and English.

The list will be only one (as in a regular encyclopaedia) and I've foressen a "cross-reference" index of people, to have connections to the companies they have been involved in.

I've also foressen a geographical index (by province) and I got the suggestion to add some maps, if it will be technically feasible.

The timeline will be hard, but I'll try to invent a way to graphically represent it.

About the names, however, I agree with you. I don't think too many space would be required to the "usual" Bertone, Pininfarina and Zagato. There is plenty of books about them that will always be better and most comprehenisve than mine.
I'll rather focus on minor brands, trying to include as many of them as I know.
I think is more interesting to know what Carrozzeria Ansaloni actually made or even that Boglietti Brothers did exsist in the Twenties in Biella (it's the only info I've about them, from a period magazin ad  ).

Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).

[Carnut]

A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..

For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.

What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).

Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.

Do you think I'm in the right direction?

Absolutely!
You can do another one for buses, another for trucks etc etc.
A job for life!

[Carnut]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The book will indeed be published in two editions: Italian and English.

The list will be only one (as in a regular encyclopaedia) and I've foressen a "cross-reference" index of people, to have connections to the companies they have been involved in.

I've also foressen a geographical index (by province) and I got the suggestion to add some maps, if it will be technically feasible.

The timeline will be hard, but I'll try to invent a way to graphically represent it.

About the names, however, I agree with you. I don't think too many space would be required to the "usual" Bertone, Pininfarina and Zagato. There is plenty of books about them that will always be better and most comprehenisve than mine.
I'll rather focus on minor brands, trying to include as many of them as I know.
I think is more interesting to know what Carrozzeria Ansaloni actually made or even that Boglietti Brothers did exsist in the Twenties in Biella (it's the only info I've about them, from a period magazin ad  ).

Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).

Personally I would prefer to see Pre-WW2 in one volume and post-WW2 in another.  I think most enthusiasts favour one period or the other not always both.

[jotage21]

I´ve written with a friend of mine a book about Brazilian specialist cars, but due to the lack of money to pay the pictures copyright it´s not published yet  

[75america]

Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).

Yes Viotti definitely deserves it's own book!

The only 'book' I currently own about Viotti is the one from Fornai, which is, as we all know, not that great. 
But maybe you can use it as a check to see if you have at least covered everything that he has mentioned.

Is the publishing of the book related to the recent resurrection of Carrozzeria Viotti?

[als15]

Yes, I've double-checked Fornai's book, although a wide part of the information comes from my "Fiat fuoriserie books" - and so the circle is closed... 

The Viotti book is not directly related to the revival of the brand. Actually, I did a historical research work for them (all the stuff you find on their website) and finally realized how interesting the story is and decided to write it down. But they are not involved in the book. It covers only the 1921-1964 period.

[Paul Jaray]

Is it the start of a new series of books?

[als15]

Do you have a cristall-ball to look into? 

Francis Lombardi and Coriasco will probably be the next ones... But the priority is for the "Encyclopaedia" (even if right now the only one working on that is my wife, which is compiling the brand-list going through several books and magazines and taking note of evey useful info).

[Paul Jaray]

I'll have them all!

About the Encyclopedia, is there a way to help? I mean you will be far ahead and it will be useless for us to give you a list of Coachbuilders we know...and I don't think it will be a good idea for you to give us the list you have (it will spoil your work, wouldn't it?).
I think we can help you better if you give us some tasks...for example, I'm sure you will take note of the Coachbuilders in the last pages of the book 'La sport e i suoi Artigiani', and the same goes with the few ones in Georgano's Encyclopedia, so I don't think you'll need those names.
In the first 200 issues of Quattroruote and in the Enciclopedia MilleRuote that are in my index there are not new names, (except in the last pages of 4R, where there are some 'selfbuilt' cars for sale)...but I can easily double check.
There are few unknown ones in the magazine Ruoteclassiche and I have the whole collection with the index...if you did not, I can have a look there.
...beside that there are some pictures and info from the web, of obscure cars 'built by italian coachbuilder xxxx'. I think those can be a good point to start with.

BTW: I have 13 books of yours about Fuoriserie, not 12...

[als15]

I think it will not be a problem to share the brand list with you and a few other experts. I'm sure you will nevertheless buy the book...   And that will help filling the gaps. I'll send it you as soon as it will be at a good level.

What my wife is currently doing is indeed to go through those main books (Le Sport, Georgano's encyclopaedia, Hreblay's dictionary, Biscaretti's Carrozzieri, ...), magazines, motor-show catalogues, ANFIA pubblications, to compile a list of names and references that I'll use as the base to wrtite each one's history.
It's a good team-work.

One support you could do, if you want, is to share with us the index of Ruoteclassiche. I never had the time to compile it and so it would save us a lot of time.

[Paul Jaray]

It was annex to #200 and #261...I'll look for it