Solved -PJ716 - Mario Grassi in a Fiat 500 spider Zagato at the 1938 Parma-Poggio di Berceto

Paul Jaray · February 20, 2016, 12:45:35 PM

Thank you Iluvatar, when I saw that pic, I knew it looked familiar. I thought the caption was wrong too, because it doesn't look like any of the Alfa or Maserati based special I ever seen.
I saw those many little differences between all the pictures but it's always like that with special...or does it mean that the car was heavily modified with Alfa or Maserati bits?
I think the event will clarify it...I couldn't find an entry list for that, but to be honest, I didn't search for too long...
The point is still out there for the final piece of the puzzle, where and when was this pic taken?

Iluvatar · February 20, 2016, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: Paul Jaray on February 20, 2016, 12:45:35 PMor does it mean that the car was heavily modified with Alfa or Maserati bits?

Unlikely... I cannot imagine even a 1100cc Fiat engine fitted under that Topolino bonnet... (with a proper radiator to cool it) ;)

Iluvatar · February 20, 2016, 12:50:49 PM

Quote from: Paul Jaray on February 20, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
The point is still out there for the final piece of the puzzle, where and when was this pic taken?

Pescara?

nicanary · February 20, 2016, 12:57:42 PM

Could it be that the "Maserati" part of the caption refers to the driver? It's not an uncommon name in Italy. Quite where the "Alfa" fits in is anybody's guess!

Paul Jaray · February 20, 2016, 01:53:05 PM

Not Pescara.
I'll add the caption soon.

nicanary · February 20, 2016, 02:33:24 PM

Is it Syracusa?

Paul Jaray · February 20, 2016, 02:53:30 PM

Not there.

thorax · February 22, 2016, 06:08:24 AM

Mantova?

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 06:20:33 AM

Much closer...

targhediferro · February 22, 2016, 06:53:06 AM

Cremona?

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 07:08:35 AM

Go south and you'll hit the track!

thorax · February 22, 2016, 07:45:09 AM

Parma-Berceto?

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 07:59:27 AM

That's the race. :thumbsup:

thorax · February 22, 2016, 08:29:46 AM

1931-1932 maybe the year?

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 08:32:07 AM

I don't know.
I hope somewhere will be a list of cars racing that particular edition of the Parma-Poggio di Berveto and #26 will reveal the nature of this car...

nicanary · February 22, 2016, 08:35:30 AM

The "usual" site is a bit lacking in information. I would put the car as nearer 1937/39 or even post-war. In the 1938 there was a Fiat Siata Zagato bodied car which also has the name Ghiringhelli. This name means nothing to me, but maybe it was a tuning firm?

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 08:42:37 AM

Bingo! I had a Ghiringhelli Topolino in my archive!
EDiT: that was #74 and was a coupe. :-\

Paul Jaray · February 22, 2016, 08:48:25 AM

...but probably you are not far off.

nicanary · February 22, 2016, 11:14:23 AM

The class winner in 1938 was Franco Spotorno, and he drove a car which fitted this puzzle. However images i have found of his car show it to be unpainted (easily changed) and with the licence plate in a different place (easily changed).

I know his car was called a "tank" which a fixed-head coupe would not, and I know it had this Zagato type body - cycle wings were banned for the Italian national championship.

Is it him?

Iluvatar · February 22, 2016, 02:33:23 PM

Quote from: nicanary on February 22, 2016, 11:14:23 AM
The class winner in 1938 was Franco Spotorno, and he drove a car which fitted this puzzle. However images i have found of his car show it to be unpainted (easily changed) and with the licence plate in a different place (easily changed).

I know his car was called a "tank" which a fixed-head coupe would not, and I know it had this Zagato type body - cycle wings were banned for the Italian national championship.

Is it him?

Spotorno's car is the last in my previous post, with number 24 at the 1938 Mille Miglia.
Other differences are: the windshield and the headlights position. This last one is the heaviest difference and I believe this could be a different car.

nicanary · February 22, 2016, 03:02:06 PM

Whoops! I must learn to read all posts!

Paul Jaray · February 23, 2016, 06:20:12 AM

I hope I will able to find more about the Parma-Poggio di Berceto races of those years. I have a pic of a Topolino by Ghiringhelli in the '37 edition, but that was a simil-standard closed model #74.
If the car in '38 is the one in nicanary's pic, it's not that either...

faksta · March 18, 2016, 06:24:21 AM

I would suggest that the 'MI' on the license plate means Milan, if that helps?

Paul Jaray · April 05, 2016, 11:19:11 AM

To sum up:
This picture was captioned as an "Alfa-Maserati" in an article about the Parma-Poggio di Berceto.
The event is the only part I'm sure of.
You know where (Parma-Poggio di Berceto) but not exactly when...but you do have a race number (#26) and some good leads (Ghiringhelli, Spotorno...). There is also a good book about that race and someone can stumble upon the right page...

Paul Jaray · August 24, 2016, 07:59:17 AM

I'll move it soon if there won't be updates...

News:

Solved -PJ716 - Mario Grassi in a Fiat 500 spider Zagato at the 1938 Parma-Poggio di Berceto